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Government Lockdowns and the Church #56773
Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:52 AM
Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:52 AM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline OP
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As many of you are aware, Churches are splitting over whether we should obey government lockdown prodigals or not.
For example, in Baptist Churches, who hold to the 1689 LBCF, there are a few schools of thoughts when it comes to this issue.
One school of thought are what I will call the founders viww on the issue that is held by people like Samual Waldron. Who believe the government has crossed the line in their authority and therefore the Church must disobey them and meet anyway.
Others say, no the government has yet to crossed the line and therefore we should obey these guidelines.
I have a friend was in training to become an elder took the first view and ended up withdrawing his membership over the issue. There was actually a Church split over the issue.
I have other friends in that Church and although they understand the other side.
They believe strongly that this is a secondary issue and therefore the split should not be happening.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Tom

Re: Government Lockdowns and the Church [Re: Tom] #56774
Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:40 PM
Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:40 PM
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My thoughts..... I take the position that the government has no authority to regulate the gathering of the Church. And, to differ is a non-essential matter of doctrine and there is no warrant to severe association, especially given that Baptists have no official confessional regulation since they all agree on the independence of the local church, i.e., no denominational ties that would bind the consciences of its members. Seems simple enough to me. grin


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Re: Government Lockdowns and the Church [Re: Tom] #56775
Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:56 PM
Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:56 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Yes, it is true Baptist Churches are independent; yet in this case they hold to the 1689 LBCF and I had thought up until recently they had the same understanding of the 1689 LBCF that people like Samuel Waldron holds to.
My friend and others that left the Church over the issue, agree with the understanding of the Confession that Samuel Waldron and Founder Ministries members such as Tom Ascol.
However, both the elders said on this issue they disagree strongly with the understanding of Samuel Waldron. He was so adamant about the issue, he said if the majority disagreed with him, he would resign.

As I have already said, this issue caused a Church split and my friend who was an elder in training, stopped training and eventually left the Church over the issue. Saying that if he had known the elders believed these things, he would not have even become a member in the first place.

Tom

Re: Government Lockdowns and the Church [Re: Tom] #56776
Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:59 PM
Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:59 PM
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So where are the two "sides"? Where does Waldron stand and where do the disagreeing elders stand?


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Re: Government Lockdowns and the Church [Re: Tom] #56777
Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:56 PM
Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:56 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Waldron believes that the local Church needs to disobey government and meet, just like Grace Life Church pastored by Pastor James Coates in Edmonton.

Tom

Re: Government Lockdowns and the Church [Re: Tom] #56778
Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:01 AM
Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:01 AM
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yep I would agree with that, although I certainly wouldn't take James Coates' mannerisms or responses. jawdrop

Again, IMO, this issue should NOT even be considered as one that would divide a local church. The Apostles were commanded to cease and desist in their preaching, but they obeyed God rather than man. And as you know, there are other examples in Scripture of like disobedience to the authorities by believers when the authorities demanded something God forbid or when the authorities forbid something that God commanded. In all cases, the believers were willing to take the consequences of their actions/disobedience. It is also permitted to resist the government when it violates its own law(s). wink


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Re: Government Lockdowns and the Church [Re: Pilgrim] #56779
Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:47 AM
Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:47 AM
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Tom Offline OP
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Pilgrim

What did you dislike in Coates mannerisms?
I have been following the story and he spent 1 month and 6 days in jail and from what I have heard he was very respectful to the authorities.
There is a Calgary pastor, that sure was not very respectful though.

Concerning dividing; when people dislike the pastorís response at doing everything
the government says, i.e. video Church (or small groups) instead of meeting together. Especially when many Churches in the same denomination meet regardless of the governmentís lockdowns.
You are going to get many including my friend who left the Church.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:55 AM.
Re: Government Lockdowns and the Church [Re: Tom] #56780
Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:27 AM
Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:27 AM
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Right...... I stand corrected. It was that other pastor who yelled, screamed and called the police Nazis, etc.


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