Donations for the month of January

We have received a total of "$0" in donations towards our goal of $175.

Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE

Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 4,403
Joined: April 2001
Forum Statistics
Most Online732
Jan 15th, 2023
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,351
Tom 4,403
chestnutmare 3,263
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,854
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 16
Recent Posts
Left Wing News trying to Blackmail RW News
by Tom - Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:27 PM
by NetChaplain - Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:29 PM
The Blessings of Our Trials
by NetChaplain - Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:04 PM
Christian Political Broadcast
by Tom - Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:33 PM
Civil Government and the 1647 Westminster Confession
by Tom - Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:29 AM
Global Warming FIXED!
by Pilgrim - Fri Jan 20, 2023 3:57 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
#57872 Mon Jul 11, 2022 5:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 139
Likes: 1
OP Offline
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 139
Likes: 1
I copied this from someone. What are your thoughts? It always amazes me that these men think they are smarter and know more than the Westminster divines who met and studied over this for a long time.

"The section in the Westminster Confession of Faith about the “covenant of works” is one of the most blasphemous statements ever written by man.
Here’s the statement of the covenant of works from the WCF Chapter 7 which is as I said above one of the most blasphemous statements ever written by man:
“The first covenant made with man was a covenant of works, wherein life was promised to Adam; and in him to his posterity, upon condition of perfect and personal obedience.”
The promise of life was only and ever conditioned on Christ alone for the elect alone. The statement sets Adam as a rival to the Christ, all be it hypothetically, possibly. Which in no way whatsoever was it possible or could it ever be possible. It is completely antithetical in every way to Scripture.
This so called “covenant of works” is salvation by works, it is salvation by the work of man; it is antichrist. It supposes or imagines “salvation” by the works and efforts of man from the fall.
So if Adam “obeyed” there is no Fall right? If Adam “obeys”, then he merits eternal life for His people. But if Adam merits eternal life for His people, then it follows that Christ does not. Therefore is Adam Eternal life and not Christ? Is Adam then Surety and Representative of the elect? Is Adams righteousness imputed to the elect?
If there is no Fall, there is no Atonement, and if there is no atonement there is no Gospel.
The purpose, the point, the reason of creation and all of history is the glory of God in the Person and Work of Christ. That everything created was to end that Christ would condescend into His creation to do the will of the Father, to glorify His name, to demonstrate His power and righteousness in life and condemnation, to save His people from their sins.
But the statement in the WCF says Adam could have thwarted all of that and set himself up as Christ and eternal life. If Adam “usurps” Christ then there is no Christ, and if there is no Christ the creation collapses upon itself and ceases to be.
To go along with my original comment which is as clear as day. The greatest point of controversy for those who wrote the WCF was the perfect atonement of Jesus Christ. In other words that seed of Truth(the heart of the Gospel)which unites all believers was for these men dis-unifying. This fact alone tells all believing ones all we need to know about the WCF.
As I put above the simple clear truth of Christ actual atonement stirred up the most controversy among those who wrote the WCF. Which manifests the very root of it is rotten, it’s dead works and idolatry. Let alone going through it and see all the errors and blasphemes contained in it.
“A little leaven leavens the whole lump".

ATulipNotADaisy #57874 Tue Jul 12, 2022 5:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,351
Likes: 52
Head Honcho
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,351
Likes: 52
1. When I encounter people like this, I rarely engage them. Why?? a) too old to play with people that think they are superior to those who read the Bible in several languages, studied it day and night, bowed before the God who wrote it, and actually comprehended much of what they read... but additionally, by the power of the Spirit they lived it too. b) they rarely make any logical sense in their rejection of the doctrine(s) that have been hammered out over centuries and soundly defended all assaults and have been embraced by myriad denominations and churches. c) I'm too lazy to take off my sandals and shake the dust off particularly when I would have to be doing that dozens of times per day they way things are now. evilgrin

2. I side with John Murray in taking issue with the TITLE "Covenant of Works" but not the doctrine itself. I look at the covenant between God and Adam as A covenant of Grace vs. THE covenant of grace, i.e., God as Creator graciously gave Adam every marvelous thing any man could have dreamed of having. The only thing forbidden was the fruit of the Tree of Good and Evil. What true believer today wouldn't and doesn't dream of the New Heaven and Earth which will exceed all that Adam had and like Adam be able to walk with God hand in hand?

3. I do not believe that the obedience of Adam would have merited eternal life. nope God had already given Adam life eternal. Obedience would continue that life eternally. This is what the Lord Christ as the "second Adam" accomplished which Adam failed to do... live an absolutely holy and righteous life in thought, word and deed before God. As in Adam ALL die because all sinned, in Christ ALL live because of His righteousness. This is the principle of corporate solidarity and Federal headship. The "ALL" are those under the headship of each respectively. Those in Adam are connected by physical descendance and imputation. Those in Christ are connected by repentance and faith and imputation.

4. His "if"s are ridiculous, for there is no logical nor rational "if there is no Fall" for God ordained the Fall and Adam's disobedience which Adam did most freely. God ordained from eternity the consequences of the Fall. God ordained that out of Adam's fallen race that a remnant would be redeemed by the active and passive obedience of the incarnate Son of God. And God ordained the end of every human being that the vast majority would be cast into Hell and the remnant would be raised with Christ and live eternally on the New Earth. We must deal with REALITY which is God's will and not spend time postulating without infant and corrupt minds about what if this or that (Deut 29:29). Scripture reveals what IS and it is that which we must strive to comprehend prayerfully, humbly, and with the desire to embrace His truth fully.

Bottom line..... [Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
1 member likes this: jta

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 39 guests, and 20 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
PaulWatkins, His Unworthy Son, Nahum, TheSojourner, Larry
974 Registered Users
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,419,599 Gospel truth