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#57911 Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:20 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Forgive me if this discussion is something we have discussed before; but I searched with no results.

Recently, on a Reformed board, it was reported and people seemed to agree that the story of Neil Armstrong actually stepping on the moon should be regarded the same way things like Santa Claus is.
I challenged this, by saying that the only ones that I have heard make that allegation are flat earthers.

The basic answer I received back, is it is not just flat earther, but anyone with any common sense. So far, that is the only thing they have said, no proof at all.

Lately, I am finding things getting weirder and weirder, even on Reformed boards.

Reformed Christians, whom previously I found great commonality on suddenly saying things such as we need to obey the health officials and get vaccinated and if we do not it is sin; now this.

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Those are two extremes…..

One advocates the weaponization of the common cold.

The other? Who cares…. However, I did just watch a new documentary on JFK and I’m actually surprised it was broadcast on a major cable network. That conspiracy is the key to all other legit conspiracies. You get that one straight, everything else suddenly makes sense in a somewhat disturbing, but not surprising to the sincere Christian, way.


Quote
Operation Northwoods was a proposed false flag operation against American citizens that originated within the US Department of Defense of the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for CIA operatives to both stage and actually commit acts of terrorism against American military and civilian targets, blaming them on the Cuban government, and using it to justify a war against Cuba. The possibilities detailed in the document included the possible assassination of Cuban immigrants, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas,[2] hijacking planes to be shot down or given the appearance of being shot down,[2] blowing up a U.S. ship, and orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.[3] The proposals were rejected by President John F. Kennedy.

I don’t really care about the moon landing, I never really looked into it. But if the CIA can do psych-ops for purposes bordering on and downright nefarious, who knows.

In the documentary, Kennedy admits that as far as foreign affairs, he was not in complete control. He tried to take control and it cost him his life….

We have free speech in this country. Don’t let anyone force you to think any certain way, at least in these matters. If I’m involved in a discussion, I will not exercise cognitive dissonance just to be polite. If I have done research, I will stand my ground, but I do not force others to share my opinion if they choose not to look into it or simply find my view implausible. If they don’t want to look into it, we can agree to disagree.

And I don’t believe the earth is flat!

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You're kidding right? Is this another Alex Jones extravaganza conspiracy theory? Who are these "Reformed Christians" you often refer too that embrace this dribble and believe questionable doctrine and/or practices? Methinks you should find another place to hang out, which I believe I and others have suggested to you several times in the past. [Linked Image]


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Without opining on the merits of any particular point of view:

Governments and media lie. They do so consistently, and for lots of reasons, but usually to promote agendas that are always obvious in hindsight, but often pretty clear even while those agenda are in their earliest stages.

They lie about everything, even when they don't need to. It's just that most (NOT all) of them are children of the devil, and lying is easier for them than telling the truth.

So as a first approximation, I presume that, pending evidence to the contrary, everything that governments or media tell us is wrong.

That applies not only to the "mainstream," but also most of the alleged opposition, which, most often, clearly and repeatedly exposes itself to be controlled opposition.

So whom do I believe:

1. God's Word. Anything contrary thereto is unworthy of further consideration.

2. The reasoned opinions of His saints through the ages, subject, of course, to the Word.

3. Those who have demonstrated some degree of credibility in the past. Subject again to #1.

4. The opposite of what proven liars say, write and publish, until/unless evidence to the contrary presents itself. Subject like all things to #1.

5. Let God be True, and every man a liar. If every man says we evolved, but God says we didn't, then we didn't. If God says He instituted marriage as between one man and one woman, then that is what marriage is. I simply don't care how popular the world's opinions are, or how unpopular the Word of God may be.

I'm sorry to be so cynical, but I've been dealing with this issue every since, as a teen, I was interviewed by a "reporter," and stuff I said off the record was published causing huge problems for other people, plus they got just about every single fact wrong. I sensed that it was not due to maliciousness, but rather simple indifference to truth. That was a long time ago, and things have only gotten worse since then. The vast majority of the people who claim their job is to "inform" the people have less than no credibility with me, and if one of them told me the sky was blue, I'd go get my vision checked.

Last edited by jta; Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:00 PM. Reason: Cuz I'm a big dummy.

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Pilgrim

I am not sure if you were addressing me, or JTA.

If me, I would agree I have been thinking of witling down boards and people I friend.

I had actually thought when I joined boards that they were pretty good. Unfortunately, I am finding out especially during Covid that Reformed Christians have so many views on subjects like this.
When I told this particular person I really had no reason to doubt that men walked on the moon. I was actually attacked as though I lacked common sense. Their arguments reminded me or Flat Earthers, but they insisted they were not Flat Earthers.

I am definitely not into conspiracy theories. Yet sometimes facts are actually stranger than conspiracies. The World Economic Forum, CRT and their related agendas is a great example of this.
Despite people being oblivious to these things. Some even going as far as to roll their eyes when you mention them. Others, say they agree in principle with them. I could go on an on...

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I agree. My standard is that most information is either a lie or propaganda to advance criminality or demonic activity (usually both). Some of the spin is ignorant, fallen world perspective but much of it is preconceived. Since I’ve held this position I’ve yet to be pleasantly surprised, at least when it truly matters. I also agree that much mainstream conservatism is controlled opposition.


And Alex Jones is used to make independent journalists look nuts.

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Tom, this is a pretty good overview (I skimmed it but checks out with my own research). I’m not saying you should dive too deep and get caught up in this stuff. Your instincts are already sound. We can stay mindful and know God is in control. There are many outrageous conspiracies thrown out there to poison the well, like the planes on 9/11 were mere holograms. On the flip side, if a news report sounds sketchy, it probably is…..

Again, I wouldn’t worry about the moon landing or those who are making you take a position. I haven’t dug to deep into it myself, so I would side with you.

https://www.eurasiareview.com/09062...sychological-warfare-on-the-nation-oped/
The author of the article…. I would argue that he is a reliable source on these matters: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutherford_Institute
https://www.rutherford.org/

Here’s another good resource. Unrestrained tyrants know no bounds….(whether they do their dirty work out in the open or hide in the shadows) https://lc.org/newsroom/details/220801-breaking-multimilliondollar-settlement

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Originally Posted by Tom
Reformed Christians, whom previously I found great commonality on suddenly saying things such as we need to obey the health officials and get vaccinated and if we do not it is sin
I could have no fellowship with them.

Trust in the medical community has taken a hit like never before. Those reformed Christians are dangerous knuckleheads….

Last edited by Anthony C.; Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:28 PM.
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Tom Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Anthony C.
Originally Posted by Tom
Reformed Christians, whom previously I found great commonality on suddenly saying things such as we need to obey the health officials and get vaccinated and if we do not it is sin
I could have no fellowship with them.

Trust in the medical community has taken a hit like never before. Those reformed Christians are dangerous knuckleheads….

Then in many cases, at least in my case. I could not have fellowship with many family members, and good friends, some of whom attend my own Church and Bible studies.

Tom

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Anthony, I read the first link you gave. It is actually in keeping with other information I have read. Which really could be summed up as Chinese style "social credit system".

Trudeau actually praised China for their "social credit system". He went on to basically say their social credit system is successful because of their authoritarian government.

It certainly appeared to me how Trudeau handled the Trucker's dispute in Ottawa (freezing bank accounts etc..) was what might be called a "dry run of the social credit system." I understand that the World Economic Forum is working on their own form of social credit system.

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Ok, sorry, I was thinking more in terms of a message board context. Obviously, you want to try and have peace and fellowship with family and friends.

Last edited by Anthony C.; Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:49 AM.
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Anthony

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I agree with you about "message boards". I will say however, that although I need to be more discerning about that issue. There is always a part of me that wants (perhaps naively) to think the best of people.

Tom

PS, just looking at the picture of me with my daughter and her best friend that I have in my profile. That picture is almost 20 years old and was taken at Crater Lake Oregon.

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Originally Posted by Tom
There is always a part of me that wants (perhaps naively) to think the best of people.
And how does this exist in the presence of the biblical doctrine of Total Depravity and Original Sin? scratchchin

A dear friend and former theology professor, who is with Christ, once told me that a Calvinist is automatically and genuinely suspicious of all men because only a true Christian and a true Calvinist has been given to know his own heart first and foremost.


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Pilgrim

You misunderstand me here; or perhaps I am not communicating very well?

It is not that I am not suspicious of people; that is a given as a Calvinist and to be honest, a lot easier. However, me wanting to think the best in people, is only because I want to treat people, the way I want to be treated.

I have been involved in too many conversations over the years, that automatically jump to the worst possible conclusions of what someone is trying to say. Sometimes, it is better to ask for clarification before we make a harsh judgment.

I know from personal experience what it is like when I am either misunderstood, or misrepresented. We must speak the truth; but we must do so in love. That is not always going to be received well; but at least we can do so with a clear conscience.

It becomes not iron sharpening iron; but impugning someone's character when the facts are not known. I have actually done this myself and when I have found out I was wrong, I felt terrible.

I have also been privy to some facts about someone which I was not able to divulge. Where others were making judgements about them, that were based on the information they understood. The consequences were hurtful and not in line with the actual facts in question.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:53 PM.

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