Donations for the month of July


We have received a total of "0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Posts: 3,329
Joined: September 2003
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,807
Posts55,005
Members971
Most Online732
Jan 15th, 2023
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,487
Tom 4,566
chestnutmare 3,329
J_Edwards 2,615
John_C 1,870
Wes 1,856
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Tom 16
Pilgrim 11
John_C 3
Recent Posts
Incorruptible Bodies
by Pilgrim - Thu Jul 25, 2024 6:15 AM
First Amendment & the Constitution
by Pilgrim - Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:14 AM
Did Paul go to Spain
by Tom - Thu Jul 18, 2024 12:45 AM
The Incorruptible God
by Pilgrim - Wed Jul 17, 2024 6:04 AM
Religion and Politics
by Anthony C. - Sun Jul 14, 2024 3:52 PM
Guns and the Population
by Tom - Sun Jul 14, 2024 12:11 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
#58571 Tue May 16, 2023 12:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,566
Likes: 13
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
OP Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,566
Likes: 13
I am hoping someone who , is familiar with the history and founding of America can tell me if something I was told by an American is true.
In the last few years, especially since America and Canada are going against their constitutions.
I have been trying to find out as much as I can about the founding of America.
As such, my understanding is that the founders of America (even the Deists), founded the nation on the Judeo-Christian ethic.
Recently, I said as much during a discussion with others.
The following is a response I received back and I thought, that if I reply back, I had better have something concrete to say.

Quote
Tom Hardy FALSE. The United States was founded by Deists who for social reasons attended Anglican and other churches. As N.T. Wright points out, the Constitution was an explictly ENLIGHTENMENT project, as was the whole American ideal (recall Rom. 13:1-7, an embarrassment to Americans, especially when you rebel against the then-most enlightened and democratic government on the planet, against a conscientious constituitional monarch) and the original iteration of it was deeply flawed -- protection of slavery, a failure to see states as a danger to liberty, the Electoral College, the wholly ungrammatical Second Amendment (I laugh at the illiterates who think it's clear, and who then ignore its opening clause, as well as recent scholarship on its original meaning), and vagueness in defining the powers of the presidency (we saw the dangers particularly but not exclusively with Trump), and the failure of the impeachment process (the House had Trump dead to rights TWICE!). It took not only a bloody Civil War but 100 years thereafter to fix the Constitution's original sin; and even today racism is so deep in the American project that we haven't solved racist policing and we are in danger of back-tracking on the better parts of the document. Historians debate whether the existence of the United States has been a net negative or positive for the world. I'm patriotic as the next guy, but let's take the insufferable exceptionalism blinders off -- because there's nothing so common for empires as exceptionalism. By the way, Canada has far less protection of "religious liberty" than we do.

By the way, I consider NT Wright a heretic; however do not want to consider everything he said garbage.

Tom #58572 Tue May 16, 2023 6:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,488
Likes: 58
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,488
Likes: 58
rofl Why???????? do you spend time even reading such tripe? Yes, you moron, BOW TO THE MONARCH OF ENGLAND and confess that any such thoughts of the rebels who founded America deserved anything less than prison or death. drop And, why give N.T. Wright ANY latitude on anything? Oh, he could say he was born of a woman and he would be probably correct, although to say that would be 'racist' in our society. It would only be correct if he would say he came from a "birthing person". hairout You need to develop some discernment at some point in your life which has been very long coming. Shake the dust from your Air Jordons and move on, my friend. Time is valuable and no need to waste it on such cretansl

PS. FYI, if one would spend just a few moments reading "The Federalist Papers", which are the commentary on the Constitution written by its authors, then it would be more than perspicuous that the 2nd Amendment is not " wholly ungrammatical". It's defense as intended is what most all conservatives understand despite what "recent scholarship on its original meaning" is touted about (whatever that might be), since their own words which reveal what they wrote was intended is indisputable. Similar to those who dispute with the Bible's teachings, it isn't a matter of what the Bible actually teaches, e.g., it's total condemnation of any and all forms of sexual deviancy, identity, etc., ad nauseam, it's rather it's rejection of the teaching. They substitute the truth for a lie (their own truth) and use grammatical gymnastics, quasi-historical 'data', and other novel attempts to discredit the truth of God to allow their abominable thoughts and acts to appear acceptable and thus blaspheme God and worship the creature rather than the one true God who is blessed forever.

Last edited by Pilgrim; Tue May 16, 2023 6:36 AM.

[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Tom #58573 Tue May 16, 2023 6:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,329
Likes: 37
Annie Oakley
Offline
Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,329
Likes: 37
I was going to suggest that you use discernment but at the end, you write that you consider Wright to be a heretic. So now, I have to say, why do you actually give him credence, air time? Unless you are baiting your readers. The writer would obviously be wearing a "red coat" if this was 300 years ago and he would have been trying to take away the very means which people have used to protect themselves and their families; to hunt and to prevent enemies from taking away their inherent, God-given liberties. By the way, these gun-grabbing enemies were soundly defeated in the late 18th century. They will be again as our lives depend on it. Why are you baiting us?


The Chestnut Mare
Pilgrim #58574 Tue May 16, 2023 8:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,566
Likes: 13
Tom Offline OP
Needs to get a Life
OP Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,566
Likes: 13
Pilgrim

I worded what I did to hopefully get something helpful.
As I said, I consider NT Wright to be a heretic.

The main reason I asked this question is not because I think it is worth debating
this guy.
Rather to use what people like that say to learn issues better myself.

Unfortunately, what I have found in the last few years, is most Christian’s do
not know their constitutions and as a result many become vulnerable to lies like this.
I have actually had opportunity to help a few confused Christian’s who have
Heard things like this.

Tom

Tom #58575 Tue May 16, 2023 8:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,329
Likes: 37
Annie Oakley
Offline
Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,329
Likes: 37
What have you learned in your personal long-term study of the U.S. Constitution? Why doesn't that suffice to answer the question. I believe I have heard you say that you have studied our Constitution.


The Chestnut Mare

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 84 guests, and 17 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
DanielParvin, PaulWatkins, His Unworthy Son, Nahum, TheSojourner
971 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
July
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,530,125 Gospel truth