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Tom #58835 Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:17 PM
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Interesting perspective. Any word on possible genocide of Palestinian people in the name of self-defense? It’s nearly impossible to find a conservative view that promotes pause and true transparency…against blind allegiance towards multiple conflicts in the region that would have more in common with a neopagan one world outcome. Looking back, something doesn’t feel right about the state of Israel. May God’s will be done, regardless! It’s good to have a full perspective on these things…

“ The anti-Zionist world-view of the ultra-Orthodox groups Neturei Karta and Satmar Hasidism perceives Zionism and the estab­lishment of the State of Israel as an anti-messianic act, conceived and born from sin. These groups vigorously deny the very legiti­macy of the collective political return to the Holy Land and to Jewish sovereignty. For them, this is the handiwork of humans, violating the Jewish people’s oath of political quietism.
In the words of the (as expounded by Rashi), the people were adjured not to return collectively to the Land of Israel by the exertion of physical force, nor to “rebel against the nations of the world,” ….

In this understanding, the Jewish people have been removed from the causal laws that govern nature and history and are exclu­sively bound by another set of religio-ethical laws within a causal process of reward and punishment, exile and redemption: “Unless the Lord build the house, its builders labor in vain; unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman keeps vigil in vain” (Psalms 127:1).

Accordingly, any Jewish political re­vival that is not messianic intrinsically rep­resents a denial of divine providence and of the hope of redemption; it is a betrayal of the destiny and uniqueness of Israel. The attempt to hasten the End, to return by physical power to the sphere of political–and certainly mili­tary–history is a collective revolt against the kingdom of heaven, an aggressive aspiration to overstep human boundaries into the realm reserved for God–just like the deeds of the generation of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1 -9). This is an act of the devil, a demonic outburst of unclean forces that may not be corrected. It is ultimately doomed to failure, regardless of human deeds: “The Lord shall rebuke you–the Satan who has chosen Jeru­salem” (paraphrasing Zechariah 3:2)….

According to this logic, the concepts “ state” or “state” [one run according to Jewish law] are oxymorons; any Jewish state prior to the messianic age–by the very nature of its human, natural, mundane provenance–undermines and denies the Torah… The faithful, therefore, are not enjoined to struggle for the refashioning of the Jewish character of the society and the state but are required to unqualifiedly isolate themselves, to separate themselves socially from the majority of the people of Israel and politically from the State of Israel. Consequently, any use of Zionist budgets and institutions is utterly forbidden, the members of these circles doing their ut­most to deny themselves any benefit from them.”

https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/ultra-orthodox-anti-zionist/



“In an interview with Iranian television reporters, Rabbi Weiss remarked: "The Zionists use the Holocaust issue to their benefit. We, Jews who perished in the Holocaust, do not use it to advance our interests. We stress that there are hundreds of thousands Jews around the world who identify with our opposition to the Zionist ideology and who feel that Zionism is not Jewish, but a political agenda. ... What we want is not a withdrawal to the '67 borders, but to everything included in it, so the country can go back to the Palestinians and we could live with them .

Iranian conference on Holocaust denial in Tehran
In December 2006, members of Neturei Karta, including Yisroel Dovid Weiss, attended the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, a controversial conference being held in Tehran, Iran that attracted a number of high-profile Holocaust deniers.[39]
In his speech, Weiss explained that the occurrence of the Nazi Holocaust was irrefutable and spoke about the murder of his own grandparents at Auschwitz, but claimed that Zionists had "collaborated with the Nazis" and "thwarted...efforts to save...Jews" and expressed solidarity with the Iranian position of anti-Zionism.[40] Yonah Metzger, the Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi of Israel, immediately called for those who went to Tehran to be put into 'cherem', a form of excommunication.[41]Subsequently, the Satmar Hassidism court called on Jews "to keep away from them and condemn their actions".[42].." - Wikipedia




“What explains British policy?
Britain has a long history of supporting Israeli aggression. As the mandatory power in Palestine from 1920 to 1948, Britain enabled the gradual takeover of Palestine by the Zionist movement. When the Arab revolt against Britain and its Zionist proteges broke out in the late 1930s, the British army brutally crushed it. The UK supported Israel's brutal takeover of Palestine in 1948 and also aided Israel’s 1967 war, having furnished Israel with hundreds of British tanks.

Two reasons are clear in explaining current British policy. One is commercial: arms exports and trade are increasingly profitable to British corporations. The other is that UK policy towards Israel is to a large degree determined in Washington and by London wanting to curry favour with the US and not challenge its closest ally.

But British policy goes beyond this. Gavin Williamson has said that the UK-Israel relationship is the "cornerstone of so much of what we do in the Middle East" while former international development secretary, the neocon Priti Patel, noted that "Israel is an important strategic partner for the UK".

Patel was forced to resign last year after it was revealed that she held secret meetings in Israel with key officials, including Netanyahu. Most significantly, she visited Israeli military hospitals in the Golan Heights where Israel treats anti-government fighters involved in the Syrian war, including members of the al-Qaeda affiliate al-Nusra, which Israel is seen as effectively supporting. Patel even wanted to give British aid to the Israeli army.

Britain effectively backs Israeli military policy in the Middle East while it has carried out more than 100 clandestine air strikes inside Syria against government, Iranian and Hezbollah targets. Israel is seen as an ally against Syria and Iran – Britain’s two main enemies in the region.

London increasingly regards Israel as a strategic asset, especially now that the old Arab-Israeli conflict has largely disappeared, meaning that Britain can more easily back both Israel and its despotic Arab allies at the same time. The Palestinians are the expendable unpeople in this deepening special relationship.”

- Mark Curtis is a historian and analyst of UK foreign policy and international development and the author of six books, the latest being an updated edition of Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam. https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/raw-truth-about-uks-special-relationship-israel


https://townhall.com/columnists/bri...nist-antisemitism-racket-of-adl-n2628846
“Orthodox Jews Expose Zionist ‘Antisemitism’ Racket of ADL
Brian Pfail

The unfoldings of the Dissident Right and mainstream conservatism through #BanTheADL put the Anti-Defamation League on its heels, prompting a call to the “reliever.”

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited Elon Musk, not just to talk about AI, but “antisemitism.”

Musk appeared to maintain the ADL’s apparent right over his platform, although, before the discourse, he accused the NGO of the platform’s revenue drop, saying he would sue. Even Con Inc. weighed in with its Jewish compatriots' milquetoast takes, creating distance from the nonprofit in a collective defense.

Interestingly enough, Ron Coleman, a prominent Jewish conservative and attorney, previously stressed to Townhall that the Orthodox Jews would, in fact, have a firmer stand.

The Central Rabbinical Congress of the US and Canada (CRC), a consortium of Haredi Jewish groups based in Brooklyn, NY, blasted the ADL, relating its issues with the NGO to the Torah.

The CRC recognized and was “deeply opposed to politicizing antisemitism,” stating that “drawing attention to every minor infraction only gives rise to more hatred. The result is a loss for us and a gain for the Israeli immigration agencies, who benefit …”

It slighted the controversial “dual-loyalty” attribution by saying, “... As American Jews … law-abiding citizens with our focus on what is best is in the interest of the USA. No foreign country represents us in any way whatsoever.”

The CRC has rebuked Zionism before and did so again:

Jews and Judaism are a religion, not a form of nationalism. The Zionist movement arose with the goal of transforming Jews and Judaism into nationalism. For this purpose, they created a sovereign state … Judaism actually demands that we show our disapproval for this movement.

The CRC continued hammering away at Zionism and Israel in the statement, declaring, “The Israeli government and all their affiliated organizations do not represent world Jewry,” and then adding, “... everyone has the right to express an opinion about Israel and its policies. This is free speech, protected by our Constitution.”

Earlier this year, the ADL released a blog post on anti-Zionism and antisemitism, explicitly stating the two are indeed the same: “Anti-Zionism is much more socially acceptable than classic antisemitism.”

However, strict Orthodox Jews tend to side with the CRC and even believe Holocaust remembrance is part of the religion of the secular Jew.

A 2020 Pew Research poll found that 76% of Jews claim the Holocaust is “essential to being Jewish.” This would explain why any slight or even comparison to the Holocaust undermines their core identity—there can be no comparisons. For one, Israel is still reluctant to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide— the brutal killing of 1.2 million Christians.

The benefits of such a “system” legitimizes the State of Israel, allowing politicians to net support from Jewish voters. It also limits criticism of Jews or anything connected to them, including public policy, through this shielding.

This is why geopolitical influencers such as George Soros are so heavily protected. The ADL posted on their blog:

If no antisemitic insinuation is intended, casting a Jewish individual as a puppet master who manipulates national events for malign purposes has the effect of mainstreaming antisemitic tropes and giving support … to antisemites and extremists who disseminate these ideas knowingly and with malice.

True Torah Jews, another Orthodox Jewish group, explained the phenomenon in “The Business of Antisemitism.”

The media and NGOs push the fear of antisemitism to stir uneasiness within the Jewish diaspora to encourage immigration to Israel. It is thought of as a means to help Israel’s “international reputation” and to be taken “seriously on the world stage.”

In 2017, opposition Leader Issac Herzog worried over “... the wave of antisemitic incidents and threats” in the US, urging the Israeli government to draw up “a national emergency plan for the possibility of waves of immigration.”

Coming back to the origins of Zionism, one of its architects, Theodor Herzl, wrote in his diary:

It would be an excellent idea to call in respectable, accredited anti-Semites as liquidators of property. To the people, they would vouch for the fact that we do not wish to bring about the impoverishment of the countries that we leave. At first, they must not be given large fees for this; otherwise, we shall spoil our instruments and make them despicable as “stooges of the Jews.” Later, their fees will increase, and in the end, we shall have only Gentile officials in the countries from which we have emigrated. The antisemites will become our most dependable friends, the antisemitic countries our allies.

True Torah Jews attribute this philosophy as “trumpet[ing] their premonition of imminent disasters.” Jewish NGOs are pivoting off this fear, so Jews are pressed to immigrate. As National Geographic noted in 2019, the French Jewish migrant shift after the summer of 2014’s “record levels of antisemitism” after Israel’s Gaza offensive operation, Protective Edge, killing 1391 non-hostile Palestinians.

More recently, on Wednesday, Netanyahu fearmongered the message to President Joe Biden, saying, “I think without Israel, there’s not a Jew in the world who’s secure.”

True Torah Jews believe the corporate media also melds “Israel” with “Jew,” which then “fortifies the position of both Zionists and antisemites.”

The group finished its statement by cutting ties “in any way, shape or form with the State of ‘Israel’ and their yes-men,” saying, “To ‘Israel’—leave us alone.”

In sum, it does appear these Jewish NGOs act in accordance with Israel rather than for what is best for the states. They stoke fear in the Jewish people for a return to the Holy Land. That would explain why the US has such an allegiance to Israel—to protect and ensure the Zionist ideology.

The question remains: if not all Jews favor Zionism or any attachments to Israel, why don’t we hear much of it? Orthodox Jewish groups against the movement don’t have nearly the corporate media backing and funding as opposed to other NGOs, so their voice is limited and seemingly minuscule.

According to Buzzfile, the CRC’s 2021 revenue was a mere $335,679 compared to the ADL, which racked up $101.1 million. The ADL even outpaced the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which tallied $78.3 million per data from ProPublica.

In sum, the root of the ADL’s mission is Zionism, but the forces opposed to the movement are too weak, underfunded and without much mainstream support.

True conservatives would help these groups have a voice, but looking back on the lackluster comments by Jewish conservatives, including… Ben Shapiro, this will never happen.

The aforementioned Jewish conservatives, perhaps Zionists, are also huddled around by the neocons, who advocate and support the mission. It makes sense since neoconservatism began mainly as a Jewish movement that pins Israel as “morally exceptional,”relaying back to its origins as an independent state post-Holocaust.

Full circle, doesn’t that prove the point these Orthodox Jews are making?

Jewish NGOs are enforcing Zionism upon the American people. Neocons, whether they are Zionists or not, still have a similar goal—foreign intervention and American imperialism.

The casualty is traditional conservatism and national sovereignty, but to take the offensive, especially as a gentile, is almost suicidal.

So, who can sever the head of the beast? Could it be through the coalition of the Orthodox Jews and the Left’s pro-Palestinian Jews?

Perhaps the Evangelical Christians, who tend to support the Israel cause, are the real answer. Younger Evangelicals are already reconsidering the stance. If the trend continues and the political discord settles a bit, there could be a joint faction between the three groups.

The eventual result would be a true manifestation of America First.”



Last edited by Anthony C.; Thu Jan 18, 2024 8:38 PM.
Tom #58836 Fri Jan 19, 2024 5:59 PM
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Also interesting….

“Abortion is legal in Israel. … Same-sex marriages are recognized by the legal system. This was the case nine years before same-sex marriage was legalized in the U.S. In addition, while the abusive practice of “conversion therapy” for members of the LGBT community is still legal in some parts of the U.S., it is banned in Israel.

While homosexuality and sexual diversity are either outlawed or severely censured in almost all Middle Eastern countries, Israel hosts some of the largest and liveliest celebrations of LGBT life in the world. Tel Aviv is rightfully dubbed the Gay Capital of the Middle East.” https://www.jns.org/israel-is-one-of-the-most-progressive-countries-in-the-world/

Anthony C. #58841 Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:44 AM
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“Aside from the fact that the Zionist project was initiated at least by the time of Herzl’s Der Judenstaat of 1896 and his founding of the World Zionist Congress a year later, and well before the Nazi ascension to power in the 1930s, the Zionists were little concerned with the slaughter of Jews in Europe and almost exclusively focused on building a state in Palestine.”
https://dissidentvoice.org/2012/07/the-zionist-nazi-collaboration/

Tom #58858 Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:19 AM
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If anyone is interested in reading a book, The Israel of God by O. Palmer Robertson is as timely today as when it was written in 2000.

Anthony C. #58863 Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:55 PM
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Quote
In addition, while the abusive practice of “conversion therapy” for members of the LGBT community is still legal in some parts of the U.S., it is banned in Israel.

You mentioned “abusive conversion therapy”.


I am assuming here you mean things such a shock therapy.

The reason why I mention that, is in Canada a Bill was passed called Bill C-4, that supposedly
was supposedly be for abusive conversion therapy.
However the Bill includes all forms of conversion therapy, even talking to homosexuals, about what the
Bible says about the subject as abuse.
That I know of, there has not been anyone convicted of this yet. However, most
believe it is only a matter of time before it happens.

By the way, the issue of this thread was the growing support of Hamas over Israel.
Not whether Israel is following the ideology of the Woke culture; which it is.

Last edited by Tom; Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:57 PM.
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