William said speaking specifically of MLJ,
Again, number of commentaries means salvation? I might be wrong.......the church of Rome has written a few hundred more but I somehow fail to see the connection.
No, writing a number of commentaries about any book of the Bible does not prove one’s salvation, any more then the number of your posts here prove you are. The connection is that the books of Romans and Ephesians speak a lot about salvation and the “Dr.” exegetes them ever so carefully. If he believes what he wrote there then he is a Christian. Have you ever read them?
Now, let's deal with the real issue, how far can one be outside orthodoxy and remain Christian? Nobody seems willing to answer this in the thread on Essentials, yet we all seem rather willing to defend our pet theologians rather quickly. Who else should we now include? How about Rod Parsley? Benny Hinn? Pope John Paul?
The real issue in this thread is Are Charismatics Christians?
and not the Essentials
. So, let us get back to the real issue in this thread: To Tom’s question
, “So you are saying that people such as the late Martyn Lloyd-Jones and John Piper are not Christians?” and his statement
, “I believe, Martyn Lloyd-Jones could be called a Charismatic however. Yet many Calvinists call him one of the greatest Reformed theologians of the last century,” you answered
, “Being a reformed theologian
does not necessitate one be a true Christian.” While I would agree with you that being Reformed does not necessitate anyone being a Christian, you were answering whether or not “Martyn Lloyd-Jones and John Piper are Christians” (as attested directly above in your
answer to me). Now, if your intent is to say they are not saved what evidence do you have? As far as Essentials
read, "Essential Truths of the Christian Faith," by R. C. Sproul.
Maybe one of you two could explain to us all the good the charismatic movement has brought about? How about if we just limit it to how charismatic theology upholds historical truths set forth by the Church? That should be a short list. Coming out of this very movement, I stand firm that an incredible majority of charismatics are deluded.
You just answered your own question, “Coming out of this very movement…”. William God does not make mistakes in His providence. If you were a Charismatic then it was within the plan of God for some reason
. There was something there you needed—not just to be able to state they are delusional. Are any
individuals actually saved in the Charismatic movement by their witnessing, etc. You would be hard pressed to say “no.” As matter a fact my sister-in-law and her husband were lead to Christ a while back in their movement. Her husband began asking questions about 2 months ago, and now he has seen “more” light and joined a PCA Church a few weeks back. Though one is drawn to Christ despite what is taught in many cases, still there is "some truth" in these denominations (Philippians 1:18). Though there is a lot
of undoctrinal beliefs in several movements making blanket statements about them as you have here is unwarranted IMHO.