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Posts: 117
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856 |
Now that Stuart has departed I want to thank you Pilgrim for bringing light to this subject. I also appreciated the input by many others in this thread. Unfortunately Stuart has a lot to learn and resists being taught. I'd like to submit a portion of an article I've just read today on this topic written by Cliff Bajema who is currently serving as campus pastor at Doort Christian College in NW Iowa. I think he brings out many good points about what our worship should look like and why. I think worship is a corporate experience where God's people come together before the face of God to receive a word from Him and to respond. God can speak through songs, proclamation, reading of scripture. and various liturgical moments such as the assurance of pardon, call to confession, and the reading of the law. The people respond through prayers, songs, litanies, confessions, professions of faith, offerings of themselves and of talents and gifts. I also think fellowship should occur in a worship context.
If we pay attention to the biblical models of worship and biblical prescriptions of worship, we do as scripture says in Acts 2: "They devoted themselves to the apostle's teaching, the breaking of bread, the fellowship, and the prayers."
When we say they devoted themselves to fellowship, that wasn't just exchanging handshakes and hugs and waving at each other in the congregation; it was far more substantial. People had a sense of responsibility for one another. This came together in worship.
Another part of worship was "the prayers." For the early church, I take "the prayers" to mean that there was already a collection of prayers that came from the apostles, from Jesus, from the prophets, the Psalms, and from people like David and Moses. Today in individual or small group worship, we break into spontaneous prayers, and say whatever is on our minds and whatever is in our thoughts. That is fine, it's personal. In more formal, corporate worship contexts, some have a time of prayer requests. People say "My Aunt Minnie's got cancer, my Uncle Charlie's in the hospital, or this person is unemployed." The preacher then prays for that. But that likely isn't what was going on in the book of Acts.
Was it more than that? Absolutely. I think it was the collection, the reading, the sharing, the collective memory of God's people, of the prayers they had received from the apostles and the prophets. In other words, they were sharing scriptural prayers with each other. What I have seen happen in prayer in worship contexts in evangelical churches, in which I would include the CRC, is that prayer has become largely petitionary, largely intercessory, largely need-based, and largely spontaneously-offered and collected. Not a lot of attention is given to memorized scriptures and prayers of the saints; and that is where I think the liturgical churches have a much better handle on prayer than we do. I think he brings out some very good points. When we worship, our focus should be on the one we worship and all that He has given the church to help us to worship Him responsibly. Too often today the focus is on the worshiper and his needs and desires. May God help us to worship Him in Spirit and in truth. And may we benefit from all He's given us to do this in a way that is pleasing to Him. Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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Entire Thread
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Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:21 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:37 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:48 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:55 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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MarieP
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:17 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:57 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:59 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:20 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:49 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:51 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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janean
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:54 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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chestnutmare
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:18 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:28 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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chestnutmare
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:17 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:26 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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chestnutmare
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Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:53 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:30 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:00 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:19 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:34 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:55 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:13 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:30 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:43 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:50 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:20 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:08 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:34 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:48 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:21 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:39 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:29 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:49 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:27 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:45 PM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:41 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Tom
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:31 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:59 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:28 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:01 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:32 PM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:50 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:04 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Wes
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Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:41 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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gotribe
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Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:02 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part II
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:57 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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RefDoc
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:42 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:20 AM
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:02 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:23 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:15 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:43 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:29 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:08 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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William
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:34 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:02 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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William
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:18 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:38 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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William
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:43 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:11 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:11 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:27 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:44 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:32 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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janean
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:30 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:53 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:05 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:28 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:18 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:26 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:58 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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janean
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:59 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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HCRigby
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:43 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:52 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:01 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:32 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:52 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:03 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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janean
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:09 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:43 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Gileskirk
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:26 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:04 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:10 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:19 AM
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