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Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 4,893
Joined: April 2001
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Most Online2,383 Jan 12th, 2026
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
When we see "we" or "our" or "us" in the Bible translation, that by all means is NOT proof of the separation of persons! Here is an example verse:
John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE WILL COME unto him, and make OUR ABODE with him."
It is the translation of verses like this that introduce a lot of confusion, "WE WILL COME" suggests more than one person. BUT if you look at the original Hebrew, that entire phrase with 'WE' in it is Strong's 2064 - "erchomai". First, this has to do with the Greek, not the Hebrew. Second, the study of Greek consists of MUCH more than looking up a word in Strong or Thesaurus, etc. Words in Greek (and I may add many other languages, Hebrew, Aramaic, etc.) are translated also according to CONTEXT. Third, if we look at the CONTEXT we see that ALL THREE persons of the Trinity are being discussed in John 14; The Father (vs. 8-10, 21, 23, 26, 29, 31, etc.); The Son (vs. 6, 8-11, 15, etc.); and the Holy Spirit (vs. 16-17, 26, etc.). Moreover, in the verse itself it speaks of Christ and the Father—plural, not singular. Lastly, the verbs in question are the indicative future middle 1st person plural of erchomai, translated WE … and the indicative future middle 1st person plural of poiew, translated OUR … BOTH verbs are PLURAL, not singular, and should be translated accordingly as per the rules of Greek grammar (please review: A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature; Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament; New American Standard Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries; The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament; An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon; Dictionary of Biblical Languages With Semantic Domains; The Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament; A Greek-English Lexicon; A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, Third Edition; A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint, Revised Edition; Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains; Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics; and Basics of Biblical Greek, etc. on the matter). The CONTEXT speaks of a WE and OUR and not a singular context. Basically what we are seeing here (John 14) is the connection that Jesus can say that the presence of the Holy Spirit is interchangeable with that of the Father and the Son. The coming of the Holy Spirit is, in effect, the coming of the entire Trinity (Robert Letham, The Holy Trinity). Christ is espousing the doctrine of the Trinity for those who are alive (in Him) to perceive it. To deny the Trinity or any part thereof is to deny Christ and to proclaim you are not a Christian. To not fully understand it is one thing (for it is indeed a mystery), but to deny it is unbelief, heretical, etc.! Before you come to ANY conclusions, please read the book above. Hopefully it will assist you with an accurate account of the debate that has concerned the Trinity and it will further your beliefs to a solid Christian foundation.
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:06 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:56 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Reformation Monk
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:50 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:58 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Reformation Monk
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:43 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:45 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Tom
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:16 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:57 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:08 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:43 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Tom
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 5:55 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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thredj
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:42 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:47 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:23 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:53 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Tom
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:30 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:28 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:26 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:10 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:57 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:46 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:20 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:06 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:47 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:04 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Tom
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:47 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:54 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:25 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Tom
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:52 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Paul_S
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:14 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:28 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Paul_S
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:51 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:18 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Paul_S
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:00 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:58 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Paul_S
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:28 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:04 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:36 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:18 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:04 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Tom
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Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:30 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Wes
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:56 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:26 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:06 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:00 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Paul_S
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:37 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:30 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Paul_S
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:30 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:47 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Paul_S
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:21 PM
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neicey
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Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:47 PM
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neicey
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:44 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Peter
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:16 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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sixcannons
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Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:51 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:54 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:01 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:56 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:51 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:09 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jul 03, 2005 11:14 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:08 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:34 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Tom
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Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:03 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:29 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Tom
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Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:50 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:49 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:50 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:15 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 6:44 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:25 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:24 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:08 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:40 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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MarieP
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Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:03 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:17 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:15 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:13 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:27 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 12:20 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:00 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:01 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Paul_S
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:42 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:13 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:17 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:03 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:32 PM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Kathy
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Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:13 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:11 AM
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Re: Trinity Doctrine
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:22 PM
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