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Kalled2Preach said:
As far as what I see in McLaren's writing as of value, it gives a very real look at the perspective the majority of Christians in our churches have today. The people in our churches, whether they will come out and say it or not, believe that people from other faiths will be in heaven with us even if they don't believe the Gospel or are hostile to it. . . We need to understand where our people are at if we are to minister effectively to them.
I find this statement incredulous!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> What is McLaren's and yours (since you agree with him on this point) definition of "Christian"? Those who adhere, even loosely, to the BIBLICAL definition of Christian would repudiate any such idea that those outside of historic Christianity and its teachings can be saved. Within the milieu of what is currently called Christianity there are millions of individuals who profess to be right with God but who are in need of God's grace, regeneration, and to show forth genuine repentance and a living faith in the Lord Christ. It doesn't take much effort when talking with an individual to find out "where they are" as it pertains to the truth and where they stand in relation to it. It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with their lifestyle, although, one's lifestyle certainly is indicative of what a person believes. (Prov 23:7) It's really not that difficult to determine whether or not a person needs to hear the BIBLICAL Gospel in order to be saved or whether the person is in need of sound teaching for sanctification.

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Kalled2Preach continues:
Secondly, He does a good job of pointing out the 7 different Jesuses he has found in his life (A Generous Orthodoxy). I thought this was very eye-opening having been raised Baptist. It didn't seem that the views of Jesus that various Cristian groups have are wrong, but they are putting their focus in one area rather than the entirety of Jesus and His life and ministry. This idea is something that all Christian traditions can learn from.
This implies that the orthodox Christian Church has failed miserably to preach the "whole counsel of God" concerning the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ. As I've pointed out to you before, it just may be that you are woefully lacking in your reading of good books. There has been a plethora of books written over many hundreds of years on the Lord Christ and which, IMHO, have lacked nothing in this regard. There is only "1" Jesus Christ and not "7 different Jesuses". Although the fulness of Christ cannot be fully comprehended by any man, I seriously doubt McLaren has discovered anything new which others have not understood, preached and taught. Can you offer one or two of these "7 different Jesuses" which you think the historic Church has failed to focus upon?

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Kalled2Preach then adds:
Also, McLaren is not ashamed of what he believes, and because he's not, his works are readily accessible. Granted, Orthodox people are out there and readily accessible, but there are not many Orthodox writers writing to the 18-30 age group. Most of it is directed at people (and a lot of the time women) in their 40's and on up. McLaren writes boldly to the people who the church has been overlooking for a long time...the people fresh out of youth group, in college, and just out of college. The lost generation in most of our churches. We can learn from his example and start actually ministering to people my age. That is what he is doing afterall. I'm not saying promote his beliefs, but do some ministry where it is obviously needed.
Again, I find this alleged sweeping "observation" to be groundless. And secondly, what is so different about someone in the 18-30 age group than someone, particularly women in the 40's? Are they not all under condemnation before God? Are they all not dead in sins and without hope in this world unless God grants them repentance and faith in Christ? I find nothing in Scripture that would indicate that any of Christ's disciples preached any other Gospel than that which they received. And that one Gospel was preached indiscriminately to all men everywhere regardless of their age, national origin, race, etc. There are no exceptions. ALL have the same problem, needs and thus there is only one remedy offered to them. This is the beauty of the Gospel of Christ; no one is excluded from salvation in Christ, for God is no respecter of persons. The historic Gospel is relevant and applicable to ALL. It makes not a wit of difference whether the person is an 18 year old Punk Rocker or a 60 year old CEO of a large corporation. They are both in the same "boat" and need to hear the ONE Gospel, repent of their sins and believe upon Christ.

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Kalled2Preach ends by saying:
Lastly, McLaren promotes thinking among Christians (as does Rob Bell and others). Yes, Orthodox authors do this, but they do so to make people think about what they already believe and reinforce beliefs already held by the individual. McLaren and others actually talk about and inspire genuine thought and questioning. I don't understand why this is such a bad thing.
Yet another vacuous statement which is based upon fallacy. How can it be said that Orthodox authors reinforce false beliefs and/or practices among people when in fact they clearly and even forcefully urge their readers/hearers to REPENT of their sins, which include false ideas and practices? Can you give me some examples of Orthodox authors who do not challenge wrong thinking but rather reinforce them?

It seems all too clear that McLaren and his clones have erected many strawmen and then argue against them, then foist their own false ideas as valid remedies. Obviously, he/they have no love for the truth as has been once delivered unto the saints and feel that they are not "productive", i.e., they don't give the results which they feel they should. When one abandons the immutable truth concerning the sovereignty of God in ALL things, then it is easy to become disgruntled with what is seen around them. It would appear that God is incapable of bringing about that which THEY feel should be happening. So, they dream up these schemes to reach people and bring forth all manner of spurious doctrines and practices in order to accomplish their ideas of what should be. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

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simul iustus et peccator

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