Thanks Robin, and thank-you Pilgrim, I managed to eventually get to it and now have a splendid printed out version of both articles. Yes Robin, and add what you have to what is in the last two verses of Hebrews 11, and what more comes after in 12, and then what is in Galatians, and one might understand exactly how the oath and the covenant work. I also noticed that this promise of 'a new and better way' was infact offered throughout but only came to pass in time a little over two thousand years ago. Does Salvation need to be experienced before it is effective, is another point to consider here. Which makes it binding, the oath that God made to himself or our acceptance of it, or is there even the chance that we can accept what we are born into not by birth, or man, but by God.

It is only in this sense that I am still convinced that we can be saved and not know it.

I am going to withdraw at this point, mainly for work and secondly to read all the pertinent information on this topic that you, Pilgrim, have link and kindly made available as a zip.