Well, Robin.

Let's look at 'three' of the seven steps and discover if as you say: 'Torrey was a perfectionist in the extreme, and his advice is centered on human effort to "acheive" favor and blessing with God.'

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All seven steps are stated or implied in Acts 3:28: "Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins: and ye shall received the gift of the Holy Spirit"

So far that seems pretty good.

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The first three steps are brought out with special definiteness and distinctness in this verse. The others which are clearly implied in the verse are brought out more explicitly by other passages to which we shall refer later.

That seems like a good idea.

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1. The first two steps are found in the word 'repent'. What does "repent" mean? It means to change your mind. Change your mind about what? About God, about Christ, about sin. As to what change of mind is about in any given case must be determined by the context. Here the first and most prominent thought is a change of mind about Christ.

That seems to be correct. Right ?

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Peter has just brought against his hearers the awful charge that they had crucified Him whom God had made both Lord and Christ. "Pricked in their heart" by this charge, carried home by the power of the Holy Spirit, his hearers had cried out: "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" "Repent," Peter answered. Changer your mind about Christ. Change from a Christ-hating and Christ-crucifying attitude of mind to a Christ-accepting attitude of mind.

I am happy with that, and you ?

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Accept Jesus as Christ and Lord. This then is the first step towards baptism with the Holy Spirit: Accept Jesus as Christ and Lord.

Now rather than leaving this lying out there and once again we get the whole context lost, I am going to give the second step.

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2. The second step is also found in the word repent. While the change of mind about Jesus is the first and prominent thought, there must also be a change of mind about sin-a change of mind from a sin-loving or sin-indulging attitude to a sin-hating and sin-renouncing attitude. This is the second step: renounce sin, all sin, every sin.

Agreed ?

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Here we come upon one of the most common obstacles to receiving the Holy Spirit - sin. Something is held on to that is our inmost hearts we more or less definitely feel to be not pleasing to God. If we are to receive the Holy Spirit, there must be very honest and very thorough heart searching. We cannot do satisfactorily searching ourselves: God must do it. If we wish to receive the Holy Spirit, we should go alone with God and ask Him to search us thoroughly and bring to light anything that displeases Him. (Ps. 139:23, 24)

Amen to that.

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Then we should wait for Him to do it. When the displeasing thing is revealed, it should be put away with at once. If, after patient and honest waiting, nothing is brought to light, we may conclude there is nothing of this kind in the way, and proceed to the further steps. But we should not conclude this too hurriedly. The sin that hinders the blessing may be something that appears very small and insignificant in itself.

Here comes the example from Mr. Finney.

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Mr. Finney tells of a young woman who was deeply concerned regarding the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Night after night she agonized in prayer, but the desired blessing did not come. One night as she was in prayer there came up before here some matter of head adornment that had often troubled her before; putting here hand to her head, she took the pins out and threw them away and immediately the blessing came. This was a small matter in itself, a matter that would not have appeared to many as sin, but yet a matter of controversy between this woman and God; and when this was settled the blessing came. "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin" (Romans 14:23), and it matters not how little the thing may be; if there are questions regarding it, it must be put away if we are to have the baptism with the Holy Spirit. The second step then towards the baptism with the Holy Spirit is to put away every sin.

Good so far ?

Considering this 'third step' is about the original question relating to 'distinct phenomenon' - the word 'phenomenon' which I showed really does not fit. (Get a copy of this book if you want to explore the last four steps; dealing with (4)'obedience'-total surrender to the will of God.(Acts 5:32), (5)'real and intense desire'-(Isaiah 44:3), (6)'asking'-definite asking, for a definite blessing.(Luke 11:13) and (7)'believe that ye receive'(Mark 11:24) - pretty good reading. I especially enjoyed Chapter 4 : "Fresh Baptisms" with the Holy Spirit or the Refilling of the Holy Spirit.

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Step 3: The third step is found in the same verse: "Be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins." It was immediately after His baptism that the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus (Luke 3:21,22). In His baptism Jesus, though himself sinless, humbled himself to take the sinner's place, and then God highly exalted Him by the giving of the Holy Spirit and by the audible testimony: " Thou are my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." So we must humble ourselves to make open confession of our sin and renounce it and accept Jesus Christ in God's appointed way, by baptism. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for the one who secretly takes his place as a sinner and believer in Christ, but for the one who does so openly. Of course, the baptism with the Holy Spirit may precede water baptism as in the case of the household of Cornelius (Acts 10:47).
But this was evidently and exceptional case and water baptism immediately followed. I have little doubt that there have been those among Christians who did not believer in or practice water baptism - as for example the Friends or Quakers -- who have had and have given evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit, but the passage before certainly presents the normal order.

Pretty much answers the question of 'distinct'. It seems that Scriptures support this idea very positively, right ? No ? Which one's do you believe teach us that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not after 'repenting and believing the truth' ?

Last edited by straw; Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:42 AM.