I have had some time to go back over each of your kind replies, but will attempt to specifically address Pilgrim's here:
There should be no confusion on this matter IF you are understanding the issues involved. What usually brings about confusion is when one, either latently or consciously, begins with the presuppositional error that man has a "free will".
Yes, I would agree. I think this is one area in which I struggle. In times long past, I had "reconciled" my struggle by assigning my lack of understanding to my finite mind that is incapable of always wrapping itself around the vastness of God's mind. Is it permissible, in reformed churches, to give ascent to this without fully understanding how it all fits?
1) The Bible teaches the doctrine of "Total Depravity"; man is TOTALLY UNABLE to even desire God, Christ, holiness, salvation, etc. in his natural fallen state.
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2) The Bible teaches that God is "Sovereign" in both authority and power. He has decreed all things for His own glory including the redemption of an elect group (remnant) of Adam's fallen. This predestination includes ALL that is necessary, from beginning to end, to secure their salvation in Christ.
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3) Although sinners are totally incapable of responding to the Gospel of Christ in and of themselves, the Holy Spirit works regeneration in the elect at God's appointed time thus enabling them to comprehend their need of Christ and to believe upon Him infallibly. So, the greatest motivation to evangelism is that God has a definite number of sinners set apart who will assuredly come to Christ when the Gospel is brought to them. It is not important to the evangelist who these elect are nor if the timing is right. All that is necessary is that one fulfill that responsibility which God has entrusted; the preaching of the Gospel to all men everywhere. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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It seems that what Horton effectively accomplished is to show that there were/are some men who profess to hold to "Eternal Security", but when examined further, it was shown that they did NOT hold to that doctrine but rather held to the idea that a believer could in fact loose salvation.
When I listened to the answers of the pastors interviewed, I heard them simply say that the person who continues to sin without remorse might want to examine his/her original claim to being in Christ. I understand that we Christians tend to put certain sins on a kind of mental continuum from "naughty" to "nearly unforgivable", and I think I heard Horton implying this, but aside from that flaw in thought, I did not hear the pastors say one's salvation could be "lost" if truly saved.
What I have found over the years is that what a person says they believe is far different than what they really believe.
Check. Many of us aren't even sure of what it is we believe as the teaching of sound biblical doctrine is no longer the focus in much of the modern church.
The awful truth is this: IF a person TRULY believes in the Pelagian/semi-Pelagian/Arminian doctrine they espouse, then one must doubt their salvation since any of the above are contrary to the biblical teaching that salvation is ALL of grace and not of works.
Now, in all honesty, I had to look these words up (thank you, Wikipedia), but now that I've had a mini-refresher course on the concepts, I would agree that these schools of thought are a threat to the church.
I guess what I'm trying to say - and I hope my thoughts aren't misconstrued in this format - is that I want to learn about and understand orthodox, reformed doctrine. But, for me, that requires questions and answers that take me back to scripture
in its entirety - not proof texts. Now, that would be a long and arduous proposition I realize, and certainly not easily done in the format of an internet forum. One main question I have, however, is that, should I join a reformed church, will I be continually caught up in examining someone else's faith rather than working out my
own in fear and trembling? I hope my comments are not considered to be factious or of a challenging nature - I just truly want to understand.
Thank you,
