Robin
Lake Park, Georgia USA
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Joined: January 2002
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
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Predestination is where God pre-determined, not the identity of the saved, but the character of the saved--in other words GOD has a PLAN already before the foundations of the World for the saved but the saved have to walk in that plan as we have free will to walk in the spirit or the flesh---GOD wont do that for us The above quote is actually addressing the doctrine of eternal security, or to be more biblical the perseverance of the saints as a result of denying predestination and unconditional election. Here are some scriptural proofs that expose his view as spurious. Perseverance/Preservation of the SaintsJohn 10:26-29 (ASV) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given [them] unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand." (the sheep follow Christ because God who gave them to Him preserves them, i.e., He guarantees their security from falling away and that they have eternal life because they are united to Christ)
Philippians 1:6 (ASV) "being confident of this very thing, that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Jesus Christ:" (the end to which God intends for believers, i.e., their sanctification and eventual glorification is promised to occur because it is God the Spirit who works in believers)
2 Timothy 4:18 (ASV) "The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom [be] the glory forever and ever. Amen." (It is God who saves from beginning to end to whom glory is therefore due.)
1 Peter 1:5 (KJV) "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (the power of God preserves believers to the end through the faith which God has given to them. cf. Eph 2:8-10) Consider also: 1) God's election guarantees the salvation of those predestined to eternal life. (cf. Jh 6:37-39; Rom 8:29-39) 2) Christ's substitutionary atonement and intercession for the saints guarantees their salvation. (cf. Jh 11:42; Heb 25) 3) Believers already possess salvation and eternal life. (cf. Jh 3:36; 5:24; 6:54) Secondly, one cannot escape the clear teaching that God elects/predestines individuals to salvation versus God implementing a plan whereby sinners can be saved if they do x, y, z or a combination of things required of them. Ephesians 1:4-5 (ASV) "even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will," (notice that the choosing to holiness FOLLOWS grammatically the "having been forordained...". Secondly, notice that the foreordination was unto sonship, i.e., legal adoption which makes the one adopted part of God's intimate family. And thirdly, all the choosing of God was done "through Christ" which means that ALL that the wrath of God, the demands of the law, the perfect righteousness needed, the penalty for transgressing the law, the imputed guilt from Adam and the inherited depravity of soul was removed through his atoning blood in their behalf.)
Ephesians 1:11 (KJV) "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" (Those (individuals) who are united to Christ by a true living faith have already obtained an inheritance (a place in the New Heaven and New Earth at the telos) because they (individuals) were predestinated by God according to His eternal counsel/will. cf. Isa 43:6,7; 46:10)
Romans 8:33 (ASV) "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth;" (indisputable reference to individuals who belong to God due to His eternal election and whom God has justified; again in Christ.)
1 Peter 1:1-2 (ASV) "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied." (Peter is addressing a specific group of individuals called "the elect...according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, sanctification of the Spirit, and the sprinkling of Christ's blood in their behalf. Notice the triune God is active in the salvation of these elect individuals.)
Romans 11:5 (ASV) "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." (A group of individuals distinguished from the mass of mankind, a remnant who have been set apart and preserved (implied) on the basis of God's electing grace.) Many, many more scriptural proofs and reasons could be offered, but these should suffice to show that God elects and predestines individuals unto salvation. That salvation includes ALL that is necessary to bring about God's "plan" to save individuals from beginning to end; calling, regeneration, conversion, sanctification, perseverance/preservation and final glorification. "Salvation is of the LORD (triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit). How else could those who are dead in sin be saved? 
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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One Arminian on Predestination
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Tom
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:29 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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MarieP
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Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:25 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Tom
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Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:34 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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MarieP
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Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:29 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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sojourner
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Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:53 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:42 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Tom
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Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:21 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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ygk
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Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:06 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:15 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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ygk
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:07 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:03 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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ygk
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Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:35 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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RoadOfLife
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Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:38 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:19 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Robin
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Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:22 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Tom
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:45 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:05 AM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Robin
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:14 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:48 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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ygk
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:22 PM
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Re: One Arminian on Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:34 PM
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