The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Roman Catholicism

...another observation, based on my discussions with Roman Catholics...

and let me add that most have been very respectful and civil (I think many Catholics view Protestants as lost puppy dogs that have a false understanding of what the RCC really teaches.....and with a little gentle guidance can be led back into the fold)

....but back to my point,

I think there are many loop holes or just holes with RCC teachings/understandings when the debate turns to sovereign grace/regeneration.

1) Baptismal Regenration - catholics claim that baptism is necessary or at least normnative source of regeneration but they also make room for special cases when the desire for baptism is there but the opportunity was never presented. So from their perspective baptismal regeneration is essential but there are exceptions.

Also, baptismal regeneration only washes away original sin and guilt, but not actual sins that occur throughout the lifetime. So baptism is necessary to enable salvation but unrepented sin and falling away will make the baptism null & void with the end result being the eternal damnation of the individual (or at least some serious time in purgatory).

2) Election - when arguing against election catholics will argue that each individual is judged by God and ultimately saved based on the amount of light they receive. In an effort to maintain and defend the free-will of the indivdual I've had Catholics tell me that Jews and Muslims, etc. worship the same God and will not be penalized for growing up in non-Christian environments in which they were never exposed to the Christian gospel. They use the same argument for heathens and the like, who have never heard Jesus preached. They will argue that God cannot and will not condemn those who were not in a postion to make an informed, educated 'choice.'

While those in the reformed camp will argue from Romans 10:

The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

So while the Reformed declare that the evidences of election via sovereign grace is apparent when considering the multitudes that are adverse to the gospel message, the multitudes that are ignorant of the gospel message, and the multitudes whose beliefs in false gods transplant the gospel message....the catholics hold onto exceptions, loop holes and strange theories in their quest to uphold the free-will of man and defeat the doctrine of Election.