Originally Posted by Tom
Actually, it is very clear that America does not advocate for a state Church.
It would not matter whether or not Calvin advocated for a state Church or not.
America, however according to the Pledge of Allegiance is “One Nation under God”.

It would appear then that you agree with some Christians and secularist that say, “the American experiment is dead.”
Why does Scripture (particularly Romans 13) state that the magistrate get’s its authority from God? And why does it indicate that the magistrate is accountable to God?
I have listened to quite a few sermons on Romans 13 now. One really good one was a series by Samuel Waldron,on the passage. They indicate the same thing.
Yet, I have also listened to the other side on Romans 13, that disagree with Samuel Waldron. One in particular by a prominent figure in T4G, that indicated that the government was in their right to do what they did during Covid.
In the process the slamming John MacArthur.



England however had one state Church and that is why people like non compliant Baptist pastors like John Bunyan were thrown into prison in the mid 1600s.
America still was founded with the law of God as the founding principle. Yet, stayed away from a state Church, for reasons like that.


My understanding also, is many of states originally had their own constitutions. That were very straightforward about God being their foundation.
I maintain that, a country does not need to have a state Church for these principles to work.

I’m not seeking anything different. I do not claim the American experiment is dead. I do not deny where anyone gets their authority. I don’t deny the power of the states. I believe the author in the video and others like him are seeking radical changes or reforms along certain precarious lines. If not, what exactly are they recommending? They haven’t really clarified themselves. Can you do so for them possibly, cause you and they are unclear about what exactly you’re promoting. I think I’ve remained pretty consistent…

Quote
THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE
In Congress, July 4, 1776
THE UNANIMOUS DECLARATION
of the
THIRTEEN UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.--That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Natural law is derived from the Bible and biblical principles - it’s where morality and civil laws are derived. I do not hide from this reality of the human experience. Those who do and are of powers and principalities that seek to circumvent and radically usurp the common good are purposely promoting things/activities/ideas that disrupt natural law to the detriment of the people. Then hopefully well intended Christians seek to double down with pre-American political philosophy derived from another place and time. That will just make things worse, especially when they propose a radical change in the form of government by suggesting a monarchy (in passing @ 32:45 in the video) can be workable, which is exactly what our founders had fled from in the first place.

Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Oct 17, 2025 9:43 PM.