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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav #11265
Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:50 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:50 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Mark,

There is absolutely no contradiction between what anyone here has said and what Hoeksema wrote. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We are saying the exact same thing. But YOU are at odds with the very quote you supplied. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" /> Don't you see this? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav #11266
Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:53 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:53 PM
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Quote
BookMark said:
Pilgrim, I AGREE with this post. God frees the sinner from the bondage of his sin and nature and gives both the desire and ability to repent and believe.:)

Tis a God-given desire and ability to repent and believe.

Great! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/joy.gif" alt="" /> Then you must also agree that it is the PERSON who irresistibly, but freely, naturally chooses to repent and believe BECAUSE he has a new nature. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav [Re: Pilgrim] #11267
Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:23 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:23 PM

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It is indeed the individual who must exercise that Faith in Christ. That Faith He of course GAVE to us - we did not choose it. It is a FREE gift whereupon we are enabled to realise adoption of us by Him. We are saved by Faith unto good works. Good works follow Faith. Faith without works is dead.Ordained works of God follow Salvation and have been sanctified by the Blood of The Lord Jesus Christ. Every good "work" done in our flesh is of God.

"Elect" infants , of course. (Was that a Spurgeon mis-quote or typo ?) ALL infants - No

Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav #11268
Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:32 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:32 PM
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It is indeed the individual who must exercise that Faith in Christ.

To "exercise" that faith is an act of the will, Mark! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Man must and will "choose" to believe upon Christ as a result of regeneration. Notice how the Psalmist puts it in Psalm 110:3,

Quote
"Thy people offer themselves willingly In the day of thy power," (ASV)

"Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power," (KJV)


The will is "exercised" according to what a man thinks and desires. One who desires Christ will choose to put his faith in Him. One who is convicted of sin and finds it most dreadful will choose to repent. It's not really that hard to understand, is it? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav [Re: Pilgrim] #11269
Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:48 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:48 PM

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What is the "New Nature" but Christ working within us ?

Hoeksema is a "pin-up" over at outsidethecamp btw

Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav #11270
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:09 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:09 PM
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BookMark said:
What is the "New Nature" but Christ working within us ?

No sir, this is not correct. The "new nature" is OUR nature resurrected from the dead (Eph 2:1-5; Col 2:13), i.e., made spiritually alive. The Spirit of Christ works IN CONJUNCTION WITH us (our nature) to produce good works; the fruit of regeneration. Again, it is NOT the Father, Christ or the Spirit which wills or does the good works, it is the person who does them. Sanctification is "synergistic"; God and man working together.

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav [Re: Pilgrim] #11271
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:16 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:16 PM
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Can we say regeneration is monergistic while sanctification is synergistic? What about salvation? We are indeed saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and we are justified by faith alone, but that faith will always result in good works.


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav #11272
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:18 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:18 PM
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Hoeksema is a "pin-up" over at outsidethecamp btw

--------------------
Mark
shocked

OutsidetheCamp? Please don't tell me you agree with those guys, do you? Every one, even Calvin himself is on their hit list. frown


&#931;&#949;&#963;&#965;&#962; &#953;&#962; &#923;&#959;&#961;&#948;
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav [Re: Pilgrim] #11273
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:24 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:24 PM

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No its not hard to understand . It is not YOUR Faith to put in Him.This Faith was a FREE gift . Do not claim Faith as your own. We walk by Faith, by Christ , this is the gift of Salvation . We are responsible for our own sins and shortcomings - this is the only "choice" we have when we take our eyes from The Lord for an instance and slip back into "ourselves". We are here for His pleasure - the very core of our life in Christ. (Rev 4:11)

Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav [Re: MarieP] #11274
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:27 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:27 PM
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sbc_and_reformed said:
Can we say regeneration is monergistic while sanctification is synergistic? What about salvation? We are indeed saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and we are justified by faith alone, but that faith will always result in good works.

Salvation is monergistic, but there are aspects of that salvation which are synergistic, e.g., sanctification. But all of salvation is Sola Gratia. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps you should define your terms, too, e.g., "salvation". Why? because there are so many aspects/perspectives to be considered, e.g., God's eternal decree to predestination, elect, Christ's atonement, regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification. When I see "salvation" I think of the totality of it, from beginning to end. If we don't force ourselves to be prudent in the use of our terms it can and often does lead to confusion. [Linked Image]

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav #11275
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:31 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:31 PM
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It is not YOUR Faith to put in Him.This Faith was a FREE gift.

I'm afraid you are very much confused about many things, including unfortunately the fundamentals of soteriology. Perhaps this is due to an over reaction to Arminianism? But whatever the reason, you are in error. Faith is a gift. But it is the person's will that puts it in Christ.

You really should read Beeke here: Justification by Faith Alone.


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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav [Re: 4Ever_Learning] #11276
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:33 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:33 PM

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No Tom,I dont agree too much with Carpenter and co at outsidethecamp.

I would be on their hitlist too .

Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav #11277
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:56 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:56 PM

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Faith is a gift. No "buts". God The Holy Spirit , The Comforter, guides us through Faith and aids us in the realisation of salvic adoption within which we walk with "fear and trembling".

Why make such a thing of "us" ,when it is all of Him ?

Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav #11278
Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:04 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:04 PM
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Mark,

Yes, agreed, repentance is a gift, but we must still do the repenting! Or do you think that is done for us too? And yes, we are given the grace to do the good works, without which we could not do them, but we must still perform them! We are not inanimate objects in the process.

In His Hands,

Ruth


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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav [Re: Pilgrim] #11279
Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:19 PM
Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:19 PM
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Good point about defining our terms clearly. After all, the Catholics use a lot of the same words we Protestants use, but they mean different things.

By salvation I mean that moment at which one no longer is under the just condemnation of God but rather now is clothed in Christ's righteousness, having no righteousness of one's own. That would be monergistic. But then we have justification. That is by faith alone. It's when God imputes Christ's righteousness to our account. That would be which one?

A good article by Donald Whitney on our role in sanctification, by the way, is found here:

http://www.spiritualdisciplines.org/role.html


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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