Because of the speed involved, no will see the rapture happen, I assume. Perhaps, that is what the authors means by secret. (?)
1 Cor. 15:51-58
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed..........
In reply to:I don't know that the references you used are necessarily accurate. There are many cults out there who also believe in the rapture. Also, many Christians who are not careful about their exegesis.
Well the references used are from noted authors (nR) who embrace dispensational philosophy. For instance: Simple Sermons for Special Days and Occasions, Simple Sermons for Funeral Services, Simple Sermons on Salvation and Service, Simple Sermons on Great Christian Doctrines, Simple Sermons on Prayer, are books (sermons) by Ford, W. Herschel. W. Herschel Ford was converted at a Billy Sunday revival in Atlanta, Georgia. As a pastor, he served for many years at the First Baptist Church in El Paso, Texas. Later he enlarged his preaching ministry by becoming a full-time evangelist.
How to be Personally Prepared for the Second Coming of Christ is by Oral Roberts--enough said [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]
In reply to:[color:"blue"]Because of the speed involved, no will see the rapture happen, I assume. Perhaps, that is what the authors means by secret. (?)
No matter HOW FAST it happens people are going to see it and hear it. Do not faster sounds make sonic booms?
1 Thes 4:16-18 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven witha shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
The scriptures do teach, of course, that Christ will return “as a thief in the night.” This means that the TIME of his coming is unknown.
Jesus likened his Second Coming to the destruction of the flood in the days of Noah. “But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage . . . and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away [or, as Luke’s account says, “destroyed them all” — Lk. 17:27]. SO shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore, for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come” (Mt. 24:37-42).
When the flood came, Noah was spared and the unbelievers were destroyed. That destruction produced a great separation. So shall it be at the Second Coming of Christ. Christians will be caught up to meet Christ; unbelievers will be destroyed.
Though the “world” was formerly destroyed by water, Peter points out that the destruction the world now faces will be by fire. “The world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire” (2 Peter 3:6, 7).
The article Pilgrim has all this and much more that puts Dispensational philosophy to rest--eternally The Rapture
But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a theif;
This verse is evidence that believers will see "signs" that the end of time is approaching. We won't know the exact time, but will see evidence that the time is near.
In reply to:This verse is evidence that believers will see "signs" that the end of time is approaching. We won't know the exact time, but will see evidence that the time is near.
Well if the Church does not know the time (and we don't) and the church is raptured, anyone who has been left behind and read the Left Behind series [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/puke.gif" alt="puke" title="puke[/img] will begin their time clocks setting them for 7 years, so then they KNOW the time? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/idea.gif" alt="idea" title="idea[/img]
Again Woodrow says,
When Jesus ascended into heaven and his disciples stood watching, two angels said: “Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN him go into heaven” (Acts 1:11). According to this verse, the same Jesus that those disciples knew and loved will return “in like manner” as they saw him go into heaven. They did not see him go into heaven in two separate ascensions; and so it is definitely implied that his return will not be in two separate comings.
“Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many” — at his FIRST coming — “and unto them that look for him shall he appear the SECOND time without sin unto salvation” (Heb. 9:28). Here we read of the SECOND coming of Christ. Those who hold that Christ will return for his church, and then return again seven years later, are actually teaching a doctrine not only of the SECOND coming of Christ, but a THIRD coming as well. However, the idea of a THIRD coming of Christ is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. Such terminology is completely foreign to the scriptures!
Some explain that they believe in one Second Coming of Christ, but that it will be in “two stages.” However, this does not solve the problem. If the rapture is a separate “stage” from the coming of Christ in power and glory, how could each “stage” be the SECOND coming? If they are separate and distinct events, each could not be the second coming, for the coming that would follow the second, would be the third!
Some teach there will be two second comings. But the scriptures speak of the Lord’s second “coming” (singular), never of the second “comingS” (plural). Besides, the term “two second comings” is in itself contradictory.
In attempting to explain this difficulty which the dispensational interpretation must face, we have actually heard it argued that the “rapture” is not the COMING of the Lord! One writer puts it this way: “Strictly speaking the rapture is NOT THE SECOND COMING AT ALL. The second coming is the visible, local, bodily appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven as he returns to this earth . . . in power and great glory.”1
Another says: “The thrilling event which will both mark the end of the day of Grace and open the door for the Great Tribulation is the rapture . . . Specifically speaking, THIS IS NOT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. Rather this is the rapture, or the catching up, of the true church.”2
Another emphatically states that the rapture is NOT the Second Coming and that “the scriptures referring to the rapture could not refer to the second coming.” 3
According to these dispensational writers, the rapture will take place first, and the COMING of Christ will take place seven years later. But attempting to make the rapture a separate and earlier event from the coming of Christ is a teaching that is contrary to the united testimony of the Bible!
For example, Jesus said: “Be ye therefore also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man COMETH” (Mt. 24:44). Why would Jesus warn about being ready for the COMING of the Son of man, if really what we are to be ready for is a secret rapture to take place seven years before his coming?
The same point can be seen in Revelation 16:15: “Behold, I COME as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth.” Why would such a warning be given about his COMING, if seven years before his COMING believers would already be taken to heaven?
Or notice Hebrews 10:36, 37: “For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall COME will COME, and will not tarry.” Believers are thus exhorted to be patient until the coming of Christ. But why point them to the coming of Christ if their real hope was something to occur seven years earlier?
“Be patient then, brethren, unto the COMING of the Lord” (James 5:7). Again, why exhort the brethren to be patient unto the COMING of the Lord, if a secret rapture before his coming was when they would be gathered unto him?
Jesus said: “Occupy till I COME” (Lk. 19:13). But how could the church occupy until he COMES, if the church will be taken away seven years before his coming?
Paul speaks of Christians as “waiting for the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 1:7). If Paul believed Christians would be caught up to heaven in a secret rapture seven years before the Lord’s COMING, why didn’t he speak of Christians as waiting for that? Why would he tell them to wait for something that would take place seven years after they had already been raptured? Obviously, to Paul, the coming of the Lord and the rapture were considered as one and the same event.
Paul prayed that the Christians at Thessalonica would be “preserved blameless unto the COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thess. 5:23). Again, the event for which they were watching was the “coming” of Christ. Why pray for them to be preserved blameless unto the “coming” of Christ, if the “rapture” is an event that will take place seven years before the Lord’s coming?
And finally, Jesus said: “I will COME again, and receive you unto myself” (John 14:3). Plainly, it is when Jesus COMES that he receives his people unto himself. It does not say he receives them and then seven years later he comes. The receiving is not seven years before his coming.
Nothing in the Bible says that the tribulation will, necessarily, start immediately after the Rapture. No one knows how much time will pass.
The Rapture is not the Second Coming. There is only one Second Coming. In the events of the Rapture, Christ comes into the atmosphere. As I said before, He does not actually touch down on earth.
"open the door to the great tribulation" That is probably an accurate statement, but it still doesn't mean the tribulation will start immediately after the Rapture occurs.
During the tribulation, after the church has left the earth, anyone with eyes should be able to see that the tribulation is upon them, and then be able to start counting down, It will be that bad. But, 2 Thes. 2:11 says: And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false. This deluding influence will no doubt prevent that.
In reply to:[color:"blue"]The Rapture is not the Second Coming. There is only one Second Coming. In the events of the Rapture, Christ comes into the atmosphere. As I said before, He does not actually touch down on earth.
then I shall like to ask a question. What is a "Second Coming" of the Lord then? For The Lord will come/appear as is stated in the contex of 1Thes 4:18-5:4 whether he is in the air/clouds/atmosphere. In the Book of 1 Thess, this is mentioned 4 four times( 2:19, 3:13, 4:168, 5:23). Not to mention the other references in 2 thes.
19For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes?
13May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
23Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
in Christ,
Carlos
"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)
In reply to:The Rapture is not the Second Coming. There is only one Second Coming.
The Church will be raptured. But it will be the time that God says, not man. It will not be before the Great Tribulation, it will be immediately after. The Last day of the world is when Jesus will return.
Matthew 24:29-30
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with Power and great glory."
Nowhere does the Word of God say the rapture is before the Tribulation. On the contrary, it illustrates immediately after. I didn't say it, God's Word said that the Chosen were raised here immediately after the tribulation of those days. And it's with the sound of the Trumpet, not in secret. Christ will appear on the clouds and send his angels to gather his chosen from the four winds. Written clearly there in Matthew 24:29-31. This is the rapture, and is exactly what's spoken of again in,
I Thessalonians 4:16
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a Shout, with the voice of the Archangel, and with the Trumpet of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
Compare scripture with scripture, Matthew with 1st Thessalonians, and the picture is clear when and how the Rapture occurs. And again note, it is with a shout and sounding trumpet, not secret! To think that the Lord will take the Church out first (before tribulation) is to ignore both content and context of matthew 24. Scripture is in agreement only with "a last day" rapture.
Another telling passage is the parable of the tares. All parables are given by inspiration of God for our learning, and there is a valuable lesson in this one concerning how we will be left in this world.
The Parable (Matthew 13) is that there are wheat and tares sown in a field. The wheat is the believers and the tares are the unbelievers. The field is the world and the harvest is at the end of the world. That's how God (not I) interprets the parable. So it was said, "Shall we take the tares out of the world so they won't hurt the wheat". God said No! He wanted the tares and the wheat to remain "together" in the field until the end of the world (Which He said is the harvest), and then the separation would occur. Note carefully, God didn't say, I want to take the tares out so they won't hurt the wheat, nor the wheat out of the world because He doesn't want the tares to hurt them, He says leave them both there until the end of the world when the separation would occur. Clearly, without ambiguity, we see in this that both believer and unbeliever will remain in the world "together" until the end of the world. Then the tares will be burned in the Furnace, and the wheat gathered into God's barn. This parable teaches us that the separation is at the end of the world, and not before.
Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Nothing in the Bible says that the tribulation will, necessarily, start [color:red]immediately after the Rapture</font color=red>. No one knows how much time will pass.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Now the "raptured" saints will be in Heaven 7 years after the Pre-Mil Rapture, so where are they go if the Tribulation does not begin immediately? Let us say the tribulation begins two years after the Rapture. Where are these raptured saints for those two last years of the Tribulation--for they may only be in Heaven for 7 years, but now we have 9 years?<br><br>Amillennialists believe that the millennium of Revelation 20 is not exclusively future but is now in process of realization. Thus, the tribulation will not begin after the Rapture. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]The Rapture is not the Second Coming. There is only one Second Coming. In the events of the Rapture, Christ comes into the atmosphere. As I said before, He does not actually touch down on earth.</font><hr></blockquote><p> Instead of the Greek terms used in describing the Second Coming indicating two separate events, we find that these terms are used interchangeably in such a way that they show there is but ONE Second Coming of Christ — not two!<br><br>The following is a list of six words that are used to describe the Second Coming of Christ and the shades of meaning they present:<br><br><ul>PAROUSIA. This word stresses the actual personal presence of one who comes and arrives. It is used in James 5:7: “Be patient . . . unto the coming of the Lord”, etc. <br><br>APOKALUPSIS. This word stresses appearing, revelation. It is used in 2 Thess. 1:7: “The Lord shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels”, etc. <br><br>EPIPHANEIA. This word means manifestation and speaks of the glory that will attend Christ when he comes. It is used in 1 Tim. 6:14: “The appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ”, etc. <br><br>PHANEROO. This word means to render apparent. It is used in 1 John 3:2: “When he shall appear, we shall be like him.” <br><br>ERCHOMAI. This word indicates the act of coming, to come from one place to another. It is used in Luke 19:13: “Occupy till I come,” etc. <br><br>HEKO. This word stresses the point of arrival, as I am come and am here. It is used in Rev. 2:25: “Hold fast till I come.” [/LIST] The first word on our list, parousia, is the one most commonly used in reference to the Lord’s coming. The word stresses the actual personal presence of one that has come and arrived. There is nothing in this word to convey the idea of secrecy. Paul, for example, was comforted by the “coming [parousia] of Titus” who brought word to him from the Corinthian Christians (2 Cor. 7:6). Likewise, he spoke of the “coming [parousia] of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus” (1 Cor. 16:17). In writing to the Philippians, Paul said he would be “coming [parousia]” to see them again (Phil. 1:26).<br><br>Paul used this word in the noted “rapture” chapter which speaks of “the coming [parousia] of the Lord” when the dead in Christ will be raised and believers will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:15-17). But was the parousia to be a pre-tribulation coming? No! Turning to Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonian believers, Paul again wrote about “the coming [parousia] of our Lord” and “our gathering together unto him” (2 Thess. 2:1). Here he explained that the “parousia” will not take place until AFTER the man of sin is revealed and has carried out his evil work: “The Lord shall destroy [the man of sin] with the brightness of his coming [parousia]” (2 Thess. 2:8).<br><br>According to this, the coming (parousia) of the Lord, the resurrection, and the rapture will come AFTER the reign of the man of sin! — not before.<br><br>In 2 Peter 3, we find more proof that the “parousia” is not a secret coming that will take place BEFORE our Lord’s coming in flaming fire and glory. According to Peter, “the promise of his coming [parousia]” will be fulfilled when “the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:4-10). And in view of this, Christians are exhorted to be “looking for . . . the coming [parousia] of the thy of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat” (verses 11, 12). The word “parousia” in these places obviously cannot refer to a secret rapture seven years before the end.<br><br>Instead of the RAPTURE being a secret and invisible coming to be followed later by the REVELATION, an open and visible coming, the scriptures show that the rapture and the revelation are one and the same event — not two.<br><br>The word that is translated “revelation” in connection with Christ’s return is apokalupsis which stresses appearing, revelation. Notice its use in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10: “The Lord Jesus shall be REVEALED [apokalupsis] from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God . . . when he shall come to be glorified in his saints.” According to this, the time when Christ is REVEALED in flaming fire is also the time when he comes to be glorified in his saints. If the rapture had taken place seven years before this, the saints would have already been glorified!<br><br>Peter also spoke of the revelation of Christ in 1 Peter 1:13: “Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the REVELATION [apokalupsis] of Jesus Christ.” Again, it is evident that the rapture is not an earlier event to take place seven years before the “revelation.” If this had been the case, these instructions about being sober and hoping until the REVELATION of Christ would be meaningless. It would not be necessary for believers to hope to the end for the grace to be brought to them at the REVELATION of Christ, if — in reality — this grace was to be brought to them at a separate rapture seven years before!<br><br>Likewise in verse 7, Peter spoke of Christians as being “found unto praise and honour and glory at the APPEARING [the revelation, same word, apokalupsis] of Jesus Christ.” But according to the secret rapture position, Christians will have already been taken to heaven and judged before the REVELATION! This is not what the Bible says. Christians are pointed to the appearing or REVELATION of Christ, a fact which clearly indicates that the rapture is the revelation!<br><br>The same word that is translated “revelation” and “appearing” (apokalupsis) in the texts we have noticed, is used in 1 Cor. 1:7 which speaks of Christians as “waiting for the coming [apokalupsis] of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Again it is apparent that the gathering of believers (the rapture) is not something that precedes the revelation of Christ. Why would Christians be waiting for the “revelation” if the “rapture” comes seven years sooner?<br><br>We learn from these verses that the apokalupsis — the REVELATION — is when Christians will be gathered; this is when they meet the Lord; this is the day for which they are waiting. The rapture is NOT one event and the revelation a different event. Instead of two phases being “clearly distinguished in the Greek” by the terms parousia and apokalupsis, a study of these words and the context in which they are used reveals no such distinction whatsoever. To the contrary, both are used in a way that points us to ONE event, the Second Coming of Christ at the end of the age!<br><br>Another word used in describing the return of Christ is EPIPHANEIA, meaning “manifestation” and the glory that will attend our Lord when he comes. This word is not applied to a “secret”, pre-tribulation coming, for Christ will slay the man of sin “with the BRIGHTNESS [epiphaneia] of his coming” (2 Thess.2 :8).<br><br>Bearing this in mind, let us look at 1 Timothy 6:14, 15 in which this same word appears: “. . . keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until THE APPEARING (epiphaneia) of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords.”<br><br>Now we ask: why would Christians be exhorted to keep the commandment until the “epiphaneia” — the glorious appearing — if seven years before this there was to be a hidden, secret coming to take the church out of the world? The epiphaneia is when the man of sin is slain, it is when Christ comes in open glory and power, and it is until this time that Christians are exhorted to remain faithful. Such instructions would be completely out of place if Christians were to be raptured several years before the epiphaneia.<br><br>The fourth word on our list is PHANEROO, meaning “to render apparent”, which also refers to Christ’s coming in open power and glory. “When the chief Shepherd shall APPEAR [phaneroo], ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away” (1 Peter 5:4). This verse does not say that when the chief shepherd shall appear — be rendered apparent — that Christians will have already been raptured and crowned! No, the rewarding is when Christ shall APPEAR, and not at a supposed invisible coming seven years before!<br><br>John, like Peter, makes the same point: “We know that, when he shall APPEAR (phaneroo), we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:2). As Christians it is when Christ shall come and appear — be rendered apparent — that we shall be like him, not at a supposed invisible coming.<br><br>Instead of the Greek terms indicating two second comings, just the opposite is the case. This should be carefully noted. We know that the “parousia” is the same event as the “apokalupsis” (revelation), not only by the actual context in which these words are used (as we have seen), but by the way they are used interchangeably.<br><br>In Matthew 24:37, for example, we read: “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the COMING [parousia] of the son of man be.” Luke’s account of the same passage says: “As it was in the days of Noah . . . even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is REVEALED (apokalupsis)” (Lk. 17:26,30). This shows us that the coming (parousia) of Christ and the revelation (apokalupsis) of Christ are the same event!<br><br>Looking to Matthew 24 again, we find that “parousia” is used to describe the same event as “erchomai.” “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the COMING (parousia) of the son of man be . . . Therefore be ye also ready; for in such an hour as ye think not the son of man COMETH (erchomai)” (Mt.24:37, 44).<br><br>“Erchomai”, in turn, is used to describe the same event as “heko”, for in Hebrews 10:37, we read: “For yet a little while, and he that shall COME [erchomai] will COME [heko], and will not tarry.”<br><br>“Heko” and “parousia” are used together by Peter. In answer to the question: “Where is the promise of his COMING (parousia]?”, Peter answers: “The day of the Lord will COME [heko] as a thief in the night” (2 Peter 3:10).<br><br>The word “parousia” and “epiphaneia” are linked together in 2 Thess. 2:8 in which we read that the man of sin will be destroyed by the “BRIGHTNESS” (epiphaneia) of Christ’s “COMING” (parousia).<br><br>And finally, we notice that the “parousia” is also the “phaneroo”, for both expressions are used in the same verse, referring to the same event: “And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall APPEAR [phaneroo], we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his COMING [parousia].”<br><br>Thus we see that all of these Greek words are used interchangeably. As in English, the different words present varied shades of meaning. But trying to split the Second Coming of Christ into two “stages” or “comings” on a supposed distinction in these Greek terms is completely artificial.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]During the tribulation, after the church has left the earth, anyone with eyes should be able to see that the tribulation is upon them, and then be able to start counting down, It will be that bad. But, 2 Thes. 2:11 says: And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false. This deluding influence will no doubt prevent that.</font><hr></blockquote><p> So does this mean they will not be able to understand a calender--7 years. Is not strong delusion already here: LDS, JW, New Age, Zoroastrainism, Gnosticism, et. al.<br><br>Again and again, there are numerous discrepancies within the dispensational/pre-mil position. Read the article posted by Pilgrim.--The Rapture. It will be worth your time and show you even more errors than what we have already discussed. We have actually barely scratched the surface of discrepancies within Despie-ville. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]
may I ask why you highlighted the word "revelation"?
As joe demonstrated below there are various words in scripture used to describe the personal 2nd coming of the Lord. These words are Parousia[coming], Epiphaneia[appearing], and Apokalupsis[Revelation]...etc..
quick example: Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. [ 1 thes 5:23]......Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[1] 2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come [ 2 thes 2:1-2]
...so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. [1 cor 1:7,8]
"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love His appearing" (2 Tim. 4:8).
brother in Christ, Carlos
"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)
In reply to:Matt. 24:44 This statement is, evidently, not about the church. This refers to believers during the time of the tribulation.
The context of the verse says, Matthew 24:40-44 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
In reply to:Rev. 16:15 This is not about the church. Again, it's tribulation believers.
Even MacArthur would disagree here: Our Lord stresses the need for constant readiness for His return (cf. 1 John 2:28). The imagery pictures a soldier ready for battle, or a homeowner watchful for the arrival of a thief (see also 3:3; 1 Thess. 5:2,4; 2 Pet. 3:10). MacArthur, John. The MacArthur Study Bible. Electronic ed., Re 16:15. Nashville, TN: Word Pub., 1997, c1997.
That is an excellent post! I'm sorry I can't adequately respond to it. Sometimes words are used interchangable in the Bible. I think it depends on the context. Ex: Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven. They don't always mean the same thing in every book.
To refute you would require resources that I don't have. I would need more commentaries and a knowledge of New Testament Greek. I don't have either. As I said in another post, I am not a theologian. Of course, there are others who could easily refute all of this.
I don't have a MacArthur Study Bible, and I have been advised not to get one, because there are supposedly iaccuracies there. Still, his commentaries are supposed to be excellent. (?)
