The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum What is the difference

between "formal corporate worship" and a "praise service"? How do you distinguish them, and what may be done in one that may not be done in the other?<br><br>Is it formal corporate worship whenever the church body gets together, for fellowship, such as a picnic? Is it formal corporate worship when after the picnic there is singing of praise songs with instruments and so forth?<br><br>We do this every year in our church and I am wondering what the difference is, if any. One difference I can think of is that it son't a regular compulsory thig that one should necessarily go to, but has more of an optional feel to it, though of course regular fellowship is not optional.<br><br>Can anyone BRIEFLY clarify this issue for me? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/help.gif" alt="help" title="help[/img]

Hope you all don't mind as I think 'aloud' here.<br><br>What is the difference between personal worship and corporate worship?<br><br>Let me say that my answer would be that personal worship is the obedience I give God every minute of my life, whenever I obey His commandments and precepts. While life can occur outside my obedience to God's precepts, personal worship cannot.<br><br>Similarly, corporal worship is to be done within God's commands and precepts, and anything occurring outside of that could not really be called worship. The example I have in mind could come from 2 Samuel 6, in which I see celebration, but also sacrifice.<br><br>My next thought/question is this: <br><br>What may constitute Christian celebration? [color:blue]Is it possible that what passes for worship today is actually only celebration?</font color=blue><br>

The trend I don't like is how some churches call their contemporary music service the "Celebrative Service" and their hymns service the "Traditional Service" Yeah, like singing hymns isn't celebrating God's grace...

Eleanor,<br><br>Jack D. Kinneer wrote an interesting article discussing the topic of worship. In it he makes it clear that worship is Worship Is More Than a List of activities. <blockquote>Presbyterians have tended to conceptualize worship abstractly as a list of activities. That conception is then applied to various concrete settings, namely, secret, family, and public worship. This is the pattern of the Westminster Confession, Chapter XXI. For Westminster, most of the activities of the public assembly can also take place in the family assembly and in secret. Of the parts of "ordinary religious worship," only the administration of the sacraments is limited to the public assembly.</blockquote><blockquote>What Makes Public Worship Different?<br><br>The problem of distinguishing between formal worship and informal worship is the result of conceptualizing worship as a list of activities. Listing the elements of worship is fine in itself. But it is inadequate as a theology of worship. What is needed in our day is a rediscovery of the concept of the assembly of saints, as that concept develops from the meeting at Mount Sinai through the festal gatherings at the Solomonic temple to the general assembly of the heavenly Jerusalem. Christian worship--that is, the gathering of the church as church--is the culmination and completion of this ages-long pattern of God calling his people to his dwelling place. This biblical motif of divine-human assemblies has a special character that distinguishes it from other gatherings, such as Bible studies, prayer groups, and Sunday school classes.<br><br>There are four essential characteristics of this motif. First, there is the divine call. God comes to his people and summons them to meet with him (Ex. 19:10-11).<br><br>Second, the locale of the meeting is God's house, God's mountain, God's city. In the old covenant, the place of meeting was the mobile tent and then the permanent temple on Mount Zion. In the New Testament, it is the heavenly Jerusalem, the temple built without hands, where Christ is the high priest (Heb. 8:1-3).<br><br>Third, the gathering is of universal extent. In the old covenant, it was the whole congregation or, after the settlement of the land, at least the males who represented the scattered congregation. In the New Testament, it is the whole church, both locally (1 Cor. 14:23) and, since the locale is also heaven, universally (Heb. 12:23). It is the gathering of the church catholic.<br><br>Finally, the meeting was a gathering around the altar of the Lord in the old covenant. It was an assembly both for sacrifice and for feast. This forms the theological background for understanding the nature of the Christian assembly. The theological motifs of the Christian assembly are rooted, not in the synagogue, but in the temple. Now we gather around the crucified, risen, and ascended Lord. As the apostle Paul expressed it, "For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast" (1 Cor. 5:7-8).<br><br>So then, a biblical theology of worship begins with the recognition of the unique role of the assembly of the saints. The gathering of the church as church is to be distinguished from all other gatherings. It is not that other gatherings do not involve worship in the sense of giving homage to God. They do. They may include many of the elements also present in the assembly. But the assembly is not merely a list of elements. It is a conceptual and practical unity of elements, persons, place, and time. It is a reality where the whole is greater than the sum of all the parts. Yet it is a reality grasped in this world only by faith.</blockquote>In our society today people tend toward informal worship and call things worship that are more man-centered than God-centered. For example many churches put more emphasis on praise songs and drama than God's Word. God's Word needs to be central in a true worship service. The preaching and hearing of the Word should always be of primary importance. The Lord meets us and we enjoy union and communion with Him in worship.<br><br><br>Wes <br><br><br>

Wesley,<br><br>It sounds like what you describe could be done at home, led by the father of the house. Am I correct, if one is in a pinch?

Eleanor,<br><br>Apparently you didn't read the emphasis on the unique role of the assembly of the saints throughout church history. Nor the importance of the preaching of the Word. The administration of the sacraments is also limited to the public assembly. The preaching of the Word and the proper use of the sacraments are marks of the true church and also a means of grace. <br><br>Is you husband a good preacher? Do you really think there is no need for corporate worship as defined in Kinneer's comments?<br><br><br>Wes

Wes,<br><br>We belong to a church that, as far as I can make out, truly worships (with the Lord's Supper) only about six times a year. My husband is an ordained elder in the church. There is no church in our area that has the Supper once a week. We were thinking that perhaps we might do that at home, so that at least more frequently we could worship. Of course that would not mean we would quit going to church..but we do want worship, not just celebration.<br><br>Does that make sense?

Eleanor,

"Corporate Worship" is not defined strictly by its elements, as the short blurb from the article Wes gave you. Thus there can be public/corporate worship without baptism or the Lord's Supper being administered. This does NOT mean that these two marks of the church can be totally ignored but that their frequency can vary depending upon circumstances, etc. In your particular situation, I would definitely say that your husband, even though an ordained elder should not administer the Lord's Supper at home just because you don't feel the frequency is often enough. Also in the article, the author made it clear that it is the gathering of God's people at a specific location that is primary and that which sets it apart as true Biblical public/corporate worship IN WHICH the sacraments are to be administered. They are not for private use.

There are exceptions, of course. For example, there may be those who are infirm and cannot attend the public gathering of the saints on the Lord's Day and partake of the Supper. In such situations, usually two elders will make a personal visit to those individuals and administer the Supper to them. But again, such circumstances are the exception and should not be taken as license for private worship.

Lastly, it is the centrality of the Word preached that sets public/corporate worship apart from all other types of gatherings of the saints. In the preaching, God speaks to His own. The Spirit may also call those who are destined to salvation at that time through the preached Word. The Spirit moves among the BODY OF CHRIST, edifying, upbuilding, chiding, convicting, assuring, teaching, etc., etc. through the preaching of the Word.

I hope that helps some? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

In His Grace,

Eleanor,<br><br>Pilgrim has said many of the things that need to be said. However I'm a bit puzzled at your intentions.<br><br>Would the church that you attend approve of your husband leading his family in a private practice of the Lord's Supper apart from the church? Why is the frequency so important to you? <br><br><br>Wes

Yes....arrgghh, we are starving.

1 Corinthians 11:20-22 (ASV) "When therefore ye assemble yourselves together, it is not possible to eat the Lord's supper: for in your eating each one taketh before [other] his own supper; and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What, have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and put them to shame that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you? In this I praise you not."<br><br>The sanctity and solemnity of the Lord's Supper has led many churches to differ with Calvin's policy in that they do not administer the Lord's Supper weekly to prevent the possibility of some becoming too "accustomed" to its uniqueness. Whether or not this is reasonable is a matter of choice, I would think as there is no biblical mandate from which to make a hard and fast rule as to the frequency of it. Our sustenance is first and foremost from the Spirit working in, through and by the Word which He authored. It is through the right preaching that we are fed the Bread of Life; not the Lord's Supper. If you are "starving", then I might suggest you should spend more time reassessing the reason for you hunger. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,

Thanks for your thoughts. I do not want to downplay the importance of the assembly of the saints, nor do I want to become method-bound with regard to frequency of the Supper.<br><br>What I am trying to understand (and am not framing very well) is what is going on in many churches across this country on Sunday morning. Is it worship, technically speaking?<br><br>I'm using 2 Samuel 6 as an example. We like to poke fun at churches which incorporate elements such as dance in the service, saying such things cannot be called worship. I agree with this, but then the question becomes (for me anyway): Just what [color:red]is</font color=red> it? Because whatever it is, if it isn't worship it does seem to be some sort of religious activity (since there are sacrifices made) of which God does not disapprove, since He nowhere denounces it. I'm a word person, and I need a word for it. So, for practical purposes, I'm going to use the word that the NIV uses, which is [color:red]celebration.</font color=red> I'm open to other suggestions. This is why I said that I think that what passes for worship in most churches today is [color:red]celebration</font color=red>, not [color:red]worship</font color=red>. And then the next questio I have becomes, is that legitimate activity for Sunday morning?<br><br>Now, I know that it isn't just the Lord's Supper that makes the assambly legitimate; the preaching of the Word should also be there and even central. One person I know tells me that he thinks that it might just be that the traditional preaching of the Word may have usurped the centrality of the Supper to the point where this is ignored shamefully in most churches. He thinks that the Supper and the Word should be co-equal in centrality...almost a binary system, if you will. I'm not saying that that is all there is to worship, but I am wondering if you can have [color:red]worship</font color=red> without both. You may have celebration, and that may be OK, but it isn't technically worship.<br><br>Oh dear, I hope I don't sound too imbecilic. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/stupidme.gif" alt="stupidme" title="stupidme[/img]<br><br>I am not advocating this notion yet, I'm just throwing it out there for your help and enlightenment.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Because whatever it is, if it isn't worship it does seem to be some sort of religious activity (since there are sacrifices made) of which God does not disapprove, since He nowhere denounces it.</font><hr></blockquote><p>The word which the inspired Word uses to describe what takes place in many (most?) contemporary churches is: [color:red]IDOLATRY</font color=red>. More than one word is used in several other places, e.g., profane offerings, will worship, etc.... I think you should go back and read the wrath and condemnation expressed by God over these man-made things that have been brought into His "house" and baptized as "worship". [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img] Does there have to be a direct prohibition of every individual thing in Scripture before it can be deemed unacceptable? Or has God set forth "principles, precepts" to guide His people? If the former, then the Bible would be like the Law Library in Washington, D.C., i.e., an incomprehensible number of case laws that try to deal with specific cases. I'm glad that the Spirit was far more intelligent in His inspiration. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,

Eleanor,<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I do not want to downplay the importance of the assembly of the saints, nor do I want to become method-bound with regard to frequency of the Supper.<br><br>What I am trying to understand (and am not framing very well) is what is going on in many churches across this country on Sunday morning. Is it worship, technically speaking?</font><hr></blockquote><p>What then is worship?<br><br>John MacArthur Jr. give us this definition: Worship is “honor paid to a superior being.” It means “to give homage, honor, reverence, respect, adoration, praise, or glory to a superior being.” In Scripture, the word is used indiscriminately to refer to the homage given to idols, material things, or to the true God. So the word in itself is not a holy word, it only describes honor given to a superior being.<br><br>The common New Testament word for worship is proskuneo, which means “to kiss toward, to kiss the hand, to bow down, to prostrate oneself.” The idea of worship is that one prostrates himself before a superior being with a sense of respect, awe, reverence, honor, and homage. In a Christian context, we simply apply this to God and prostrate ourselves before Him in respect and honor, paying Him the glory due His superior character.<br><br>Essentially, then, worship is giving - giving honor and respect to God. That is why we, as Christians, gather together on Sunday. We don’t gather to give respect to the preacher or those in the choir, we gather to give honor to God. The sermon and the music are just to be the stimuli that create the desire in our hearts to honor Him. <br><br>John Piper emphasizes the importance of preaching. He writes, "The reason that preaching is so prominent in worship is that worship is not just understanding but also feeling. It is not just seeing God, but also savoring God. It is not just the response of the mind, but also of the heart. Therefore God has ordained that the form his Word should take in corporate worship is not just explanation to the mind and not just stimulation to the heart. Rather the Word of God is to come teaching the mind and reaching the heart; showing the truth of Christ and savoring the glory of Christ; expositing the Word of God and exulting in the God of the Word. <br><br>That is what preaching is. And that is why it is so prominent in worship. It is not a mere work of man. It is a gift and work of the Holy Spirit. And therefore it happens most and best where a people are praying and spiritually prepared for it."<br><br>Eleanor, can we say that all the variety of forms of worship that go on across our country on a Sunday morning reflect what has been discribed above and should it rightly be called true worship?<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]One person I know tells me that he thinks that it might just be that the traditional preaching of the Word may have usurped the centrality of the Supper to the point where this is ignored shamefully in most churches. He thinks that the Supper and the Word should be co-equal in centrality...almost a binary system, if you will.</font><hr></blockquote><p>The Roman Catholic church made the Lord's Supper central but it should never be considered central nor co-equal with the preaching of the Word. The elements are meaningless without the preaching of the Word. It's the preaching of the Word that proclaims to us the Gospel of Jesus Christ and teaches us the significance of Christ's broken body and shed blood which provides a complete remission of all our sin.<br><br>Psalm 95:6 "Oh come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the LORD, our Maker!"<br><br>Psalm 103:1 "Bless the LORD, O my soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name!<br><br><br><br>Wes