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Speaking of the names of God, why do we call Him Jesus? Jesus was never His name! And why have all the Bible interpreters perpetuated this? Does Jesus, (whose name really isn't Jesus), approve? I doubt it!
Last edited by chestnutmare; Sat Jan 07, 20127:40 PM.
I have always told those who INSIST we use the term Yahweh instead of LORD or Jehovah, that I will use the name Yahweh once they start calling Jesus Y'shua.
This is from a friend of mine who is fluent in Arabic:
"From a linguistic basis, the word "Allah" comes from the Arabic "Al-Ilah", meaning 'The God". It has the Semitic root 'ilah' corresponding to the Hebrew 'eloah' (singular form of the plural 'Elohim'). It is the word for God currently used in the Arabic [translation of the] Bible and has been reverently used by may millions of Arabic CHristians since the 1st C. AD.
The Greek translation of our own word for God (theos) has a "heathen" Greek origin with an Indo-European root 'dhes'. Additionally, the pagan Greek 'Zeus' has the Indo-European root of 'dyeu' and is the origin of the word "Deus" (God in the Latin Vulgate Bible), 'Dios' (Spanish) and 'Dieu' (French). Fianlly our English word for God comes from a proto-Germanic pagan word for a god or idol, and was neuter in gender until it was masculinised when the Greman tribes converted to Christianity in the mid-first millenium AD....In fact, Arab Christians may have a better case for not wanting to translate their word Allah into the English word God for fear that [the word] 'God' has pagan origins!"
All this of course is seperate from the theological question of whether a Muslim's Allah is the same as the CHristian God, to which the answer should be obvious. I am here addressing only the word itself.
In reply to:why do we call Him Jesus? Jesus was never His name!
I'm really confused as to this whole subject you started. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/scratch.gif" alt="scratch" title="scratch[/img] First of all, who is the "Him" and "His" that is called Jesus that you object to and say that "Jesus was never His name!"??
In reply to:Does Jesus, (whose name really isn't Jesus), approve?
If Jesus is not the real name of who the translators have all called Jesus, then according to your expertise, what exactly IS His name? For example, how do YOU translate the Greek in Matthew 1:21?
Matthew 1:21 (TR) "texetai de uion kai kaleseis to onoma autou ihsoun autos gar swsei ton laon autou apo twn amartiwn autwn"
Matthew 1:21 (ASV) "And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins."
Isn't his point that although the New Testament was written in Greek, most people just walking around did not speak in Greek (I'm not saying they didn't know Greek, but only that it was not their native tongue)? And thus they would not have called Him "Jesus", but Y'shua (or something like that, I don't know Hebrew or Aramaic). And Jesus isn't even the Greek, it is our English translation of the Greek.
My name is Stephen. If somebody wrote a biography about me in French, it would be Etienne. If they wrote it in Spanish it would be Esteban. But my name is not Etienne or Esteban, it is Stephen.
John Calvin's name was not John Calvin. I believe it was Jean Cauvin. In today's world we would not have Anglicized his name, and he would have been known as Jean Cauvin.
And in a sense is not that what we have with Jesus? When He was born to the virgin, did they call Him Jesus? Or did they call Him Y'shua?
I'm not sayinig it matters whether we call Him Y'shua or Jesus or whatever other translation we have. I'm just saying that the name Jesus was probably not what he was called.
But, if you make this assertion that we should call Jesus, onlyY'shua, or ...?, then we must apply this line of reasoning to the rest of the Word of God-for He is the Word . Are you saying you desire sermons in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic?
Additionally, we could only evangelize individuals in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic.
Is God the author of languages ? Does He allow the use of other languages?
Acts 2:1-8 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Actually, Scripture has SEVERAL names for Christ. One site has nearly 600 listed (we may not agree with all these...). Are not these His names as well?
Son of God - Mark 1:1 Son of Man - Matthew 8:20 Son of David - Matthew 15:22 Lamb of God - John 1:29 Christ - Matthew 16:16 Savior - John 4:14 Rabbi/Teacher - John 1:38, Mark 5:35 Alpha and Omega - Revelation 1:8 Lion of Judah - Revelation 5:5 King of Kings/Lord of Lords - Revelation 19:16 Bright Morning Star - Revelation 22:16 Head of the Church - Ephesians 5:23
If Jesus wasn't his name than what was it? Jesus is just another version of his hebrew name Yeshua ( a variation of Yehoshua or Joshua) just like Ivan is the russian version of John. If your questioning the divinity of Christ then thats a whole other problem that needs to be adressed.
In reply to:[color:"blue"]I'm just saying that the name Jesus was probably not what he was called.
I think Joe answered this point you raise about the name wasn't "Jesus" because that is simply the English translation. The whole idea is rather inane, IMHO, as if there is some mystical power or special significance to using the original Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic word. So, I will ask you as I did Johannah.... How would you translate the Greek of Matthew 1:21, if Jesus is somehow incorrect?
As to online sources, I do not know. My friend is a missionary who learned the language more than 20 years ago, and his son grew up with the language and got his degree in linguistics. My recommnedation is that you pursue a search on Indo-European linguistics. Perhaps a university would be able to help you. I know that Middlebury College (VT) has a linguistics department; parhaps they could direct you to some relevant textbooks which you could purchase second-hand. I'm sure they have a website in which you could track down and email a professor in that field to ask.
I'm not saying the translation is wrong. And I also think we SHOULD be using translations! I'm just saying that nobody called him Jesus (they didn't go up to him and speak the name Jesus). That is all.<br><br>Again, my point is that it is inconsistent for those who DEMAND we say Yahweh to then say Jesus. I personally say either LORD or Jehovah, and use Jesus.<br><br>Steve
In reply to:[color:"blue"]I'm just saying that nobody called him Jesus (they didn't go up to him and speak the name Jesus). That is all.
Gee, I thought that would be a given; i.e., nobody during the time of Christ's earthly ministry spoke English! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img] Thus my consternation and questions in this regard. Why should the word translated into English as "Jesus", which is an accurate translation of the Greek be somehow given special notice and rejected over any other word which has been translated from the original languages?
Actually, just to show how silly this entire idea is, on what basis would one choose between Matthew's inspired record of the name of Jesus as given in these two texts:
Matthew 1:21 (KJV) "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
Matthew 1:23 (KJV) "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
In reply to:[color:"blue"]Again, my point is that it is inconsistent for those who DEMAND we say Yahweh to then say Jesus.
There may be others, but I can think of only one group which demands that the name of God be something particular. That group is the JW's who say that the "name of God" is Jehovah. The argument for this is ludicrous, since as you are probably more than aware, the Hebrew is but four consonants and no vowels. Thus it could be either Jehovah or Yahweh. And, there are many other names which are ascribed to God throughout the Old and New Testaments.
Of course, the Oneness Pentecostals also make a big todo about the "name" of God. But their arguments are even more incredulous. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]
I have heard that the name Jehovah is not in the Bible but is a combination of two differnt names used for God.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I have heard that the name Jehovah is not in the Bible but is a combination of two different names used for God.</font><hr></blockquote><p>A novel idea to be sure, but it is common knowledge that Jehovah and Yahweh are both legitimate expressions of the tetragrammaton from which both are derived. There is no evidence that would give precedence to one over the other as they are basically identical. But, since you did mention this, where did you "hear" this? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,
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