In looking at all the mainline Reformed Denominations (both in America and Europe) today, which do you think is the [color:red]most scriptural. Of course, this will vary church to church on an individual basis, but denominational wise when we look at theology...church government, form of worship, missions, et. al., which do you think is the [color:red]most biblical "overall"?
For instance, I am presently PCA, but am moving and will not be PCA when I move. I have seen too much liberalism in the PCA in terms of government and worship and for that matter some of their theology/missions-World Harvest Missions/Sonship Training.
Is it time to begin a NEW Denomination that is [color:red]more in line with the truth once delivered to the saints or should we attempt reform in one of the other denominations? Neither would be easy!
That is a good start, J.<br>I appreciate that as a beginning point, because so many liberal denominations (as well as cults) today are NOT. <br><br>Steve
And by Trinitarian, meaning, one God who subsists in three persons. Three distinct personalities.<br><br>Each of the three is distinguished from the other; each possesses all the divine attributes; yet the three are one.<br><br>None is a created being. All three personalities have eternally existed.
You are indeed [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img] PCUSA [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/puke.gif" alt="puke" title="puke[/img]<br><br>I believe that without going through each Doctrinal Statement and discussing EACH theological position, it would be easier just to say that we should embrace the WCF. <br><br>Thus, let us look at the system of government, the theology of--missions, evangelism, worship....<br><br>What for instance would be a BIBLICAL order of worship for a Sunday morning service, et. al.<br>
Good question. Havean't figured that one out yet. Trinitarian, Reformed, and Conservative, are the 3 things i look for. And non-paedo baptist. But i would settle for the first 3. PCA is cool from what i've gathered.
I, myself, am a member of the PCA (in fact, I was a student at, then an employee of, Covenant College for several years and found the college to be shockingly liberal in several areas), but have actually preferred the ARP (doctrine, study, worship services, etc.). As there is no ARP church where I am now living, I once again attend a PCA church, but I intend to look further into the ARP.
Joe,<br><br>Most Christians would agree there is "one holy catholic Church" however denominations are the product of man and literally deny that oneness. As you know the Church is continuing to be reformed and because of the nature of this process in the lives of believers we continue to see the rise and fall of denominations. Historically the term "denomination" is a dividing distinction. It distinguishes one church from another over doctrinal issues and practices. Now I'm not suggesting that we have to overlook our differences but can we expect to see a true "holy catholic Church" on the earth before the Lord returns which overcomes our differences?<br><br>Each new denomination comes into being over the failure of the previous model. What may conform to the will of God today may be apostate tomorrow. We've seen this happen time and time again in Church history. Isn't this a result of our sinful human nature? Can any "denomination" claim to be the best? If so, by what measurement? <br><br><br>Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
The question at the top of the topic was "Which denomination is the best?" I suspect that God would approve of the Mennonites more than any other. That doesn't mean they are good, just better than the others. Still, I wouldn't want to go to a Mennonite Church because their beliefs on The Doctine of Predestination are wrong. They probably have other beliefs that are wrong as well. Most Mennonites are pacifist, and I think that is "out of touch with reality." Chances are, God is tolerant of that attitude though.<br><br>If God had felt Denominations were important, He would have said so. Probably, the best thing to do when looking for a Church, is to forget about Denominations, and just find or try to find a good, Non-Denominational Church. Something along the line of Grace Community Church is what I would look for.
In reply to:[color:"blue"]Each new denomination comes into being over the failure of the previous model. What may conform to the will of God today may be apostate tomorrow. We've seen this happen time and time again in Church history. Isn't this a result of our sinful human nature? Can any "denomination" claim to be the best? If so, by what measurement?
I agree, but, we need to ask ourselves why these have failed (yes, human depravity, but lets break this down further) and how to BETTER overcome those failures. One of the predominate things in any Church would need to be its god-centered eldership/leadership. Proper leadership can keep a church on the right track, as well as proper teachers, proper government, proper discipline, et. al.
IMHO the "church" is in poor shape overall. This is not to say there is not some good, but there is much to [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/flee.gif" alt="flee" title="flee[/img] from. Thus, how do we break all this down and re-examine the present state of denominations to what we would deem to be a biblical paradigm?
1. what is the biblical paradigm of the church (the standards and checks and balances of biblical eldership, proper teaching, proper missions, et. al.)? 2. how do we get the church to this state...of course, the Holy Spirit, but how do we act as participants therein?[/LIST] How does it get fixed? What is your biblical idea of the "perfect" church this side of Heaven, and how do we get there?
P.S. IMHO, two of the greatest failures of the church today is its lack of prayer and proper theology. I believe these are two of the reasons why we are where we are at today.
What I think makes them better, is their emphesis on being Biblical. They seem to do a better job than average of fighting liberalism. Still, as I said in the other post: on the Doctrine of Predestination, they think they are biblical, but aren't. All I know about Mennonites is what I have read, so I may be wrong.<br><br>I have a lot of respect for The Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod too. The know precisely what they believe and why and stand up for that, even when it means standing against the world. But I don't believe their views on baptism are biblical. I don't think their beliefs on election are exackly biblical either.
I like this statement in Article 29 in the Belgic Confession of faith.
The Belgic Confession of Faith, Article XXIX The Marks of the True Church, and Wherein it Differs from the False Church
We believe that we ought diligently and circumspectly to discern from the Word of God which is the true Church, since all sects which are in the world assume to themselves the name of the Church. But we speak not here of hypocrites, who are mixed in the Church with the good, yet are not of the Church, though externally in it; but we say that the body and communion of the true Church must be distinguished from all sects that call themselves the Church.
The marks by which the true Church is known are these: If the pure doctrine of the gospel is preached therein; if it maintains the pure administration of the sacraments as instituted by Christ; if church discipline is exercised in chastening [1] of sin; in short, if all things are managed according to the pure Word of God, all things contrary thereto rejected, and Jesus Christ acknowledged as the only Head of the Church. Hereby the true Church may certainly be known, from which no man has a right to separate himself.
With respect to those who are members of the Church, they may be known by the marks of Christians; namely, by faith, and when, having received Jesus Christ the only Savior, they avoid sin, follow after righteousness, love the true God and their neighbor, neither turn aside to the right or left, and crucify the flesh with the works thereof. But this is not to be understood as if there did not remain in them great infirmities; but they fight against them through the Spirit all the days of their life, continually taking their refuge in the blood, death, passion, and obedience of our Lord Jesus Christ, in whom they have remission of sins, through faith in Him.
As for the false Church, it ascribes more power and authority to itself and its ordinances than to the Word of God, and will not submit itself to the yoke of Christ. Neither does it administer the sacraments as appointed by Christ in His Word, but adds to and takes from them, as it thinks proper; it relies more upon men than upon Christ; and persecutes those who live holily according to the Word of God and rebuke it for its errors, covetousness, and idolatry.
These two Churches are easily known and distinguished from each other.
This statement helps us to distinguish a true church from a false church. Ofcourse God's Spirit is the force behind any faithful church. However I've seen people lacking true humility in leadership positions in churches and this too can be a hindrance. I agree with you prayer and sound doctrine are essential.
Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
