The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyper...?

We also have much scriptual support for God's Sovereignty:

(While Arminians feel there are accidents that fall outside GOd's sovereign, eternal decrees & immutability)

* Check out Section I of this book for a full explanation: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/boettner/predest.toc.html


Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Acts 4:27, 28: For of a truth in this city against thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, were gathered together, to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel foreordained to come to pass.

Ephesians 1:5: Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will.

Ephesians 1:11: In whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His will.

Romans 8:28: To them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to His purpose.

Daniel 4:35: He doeth according to His will In the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest thou?

Jeremiah 32:17: Ah Lord Jehovah! behold thou hast made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thine outstretched arm; and there is nothing too hard for thee.

Matthew 28:18: All authority bath been given unto me (Christ) in heaven and on earth.

Ephesians 1:22: And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church.

Ephesians 1:11: In whom we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His will.

Isaiah 14:24, 27: Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass . . . . For Jehovah of hosts hath purposed, and who shall annul it? and His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

Isaiah 46:9, 10, 11: Remember the former things of old; for I am God. and there is none else; I am God and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure . . . . yea, I have spoken; I will also bring It to pass; I have purposed, I will also do it.

Genesis 18:14: Is anything too hard for Jehovah?

Job 42:2: I know that thou canst do all things, And that no purpose of thine can be restrained.

Psalm 115:3: Our God is in the heavens. He hath done whatsoever He pleased.

Psalm 135:6: Whatsoever Jehovah pleased, that hath He done. In heaven, in earth, in the seas, and in all deeps.

Isaiah 55:11: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth; it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Romans 9:20, 21: Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?



Romans 8:29, 30: For whom He foreknew, He also foreordained to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom He foreordained, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

1 Corinthians 2:7: But we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory.

Acts 2:23: Him (Jesus) being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hands of lawless men did crucify and slay.

Acts 13:48: And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Ephesians 2:10: For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Romans 9:23: That He might make known the riches of His glory upon the vessels of mercy, which He afore prepared unto glory.

Psalm 139:16: Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance; And in thy book they were all written, Even the days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was none of them.

Genesis 50:20: As for you, ye meant evil against me (Joseph), but God meant it for good.

Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I am Jehovah that doeth all these things.

Amos 3:6: Shall evil befall a city and Jehovah hath not done it?

Acts 3:18: The things which God foreshowed by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ should suffer, He thus fulfilled.

Matthew 21:42: The stone which the builders rejected, the same was made the head of the corner.

Regeneration comes from the passage in John 3 - "you must be born again". The passage says we are reborn by the Holy Spirit.

To assert that the ultimate cause of one's damnation due to their rejection of the Gospel is God's you then make God the "Author of sin" as well as relieve all responsibility from the individual. God chose to NOT save the majority of Adam's fallen race, which decision is just. If God were obligated to save anyone, then it would not be of grace. It was God's design to appoint Adam as the Federal Head of the human race and to establish corporate solidarity. Due to Adam's transgression the entire human race was punished (made sinners). The penalty of Adam's transgression was two-fold: 1) ALL would have Adam's guilt imputed to them and 2) ALL would be born like unto Adam, i.e., with a corrupt nature. Thus by virtue of being human, ALL are under the just condemnation of God.

Now, if you choose to reject the biblical teaching of "imputation", you of necessity eliminate the work of Christ and the salvation merited by Him. For, it is by the "imputation" of righteousness that sinners are reconciled with God. This truth is indisputably set forth in Rom 5:12-18 and I Cor 15:21, 22. What you are left with is some form of synergism and the atonement reduces to nothing more than an example, e.g., Finney ended up with his bankrupt Governmental Theory of the atonement which provides no actual salvation at all.

For all intents and purposes, any other reasons underlying proposed are moot.

Robertson's Word Pictures is not a Greek Lexicon but a commentary, if that. Thus it has no salient use to the discussion. If you would consult a recognized Greek Lexicon you would see that the word does indeed mean "to appoint", etc.

tas'-so

a prolonged form of a primary verb (which latter appears only in certain tenses); to arrange in an orderly manner, i.e. assign or dispose (to a certain position or lot):--addict, appoint, determine, ordain, set.

Personally, I have far more trust in my understanding of Koine Greek that yours. Thus the text does say, "as many as were appointed, ordained, determined (to salvation; understood) believed. The proximate cause of their believe was their being ordained to do so. (cf. Eph 1:4-11) You are deliberately ignoring the grammatical order and reversing what the text actually says; "those who believed were ordained" rather than "those who were ordained, believed". To be "ordained to eternal life" is the same as being ordained to be united with Christ by faith, salvation, et al, since eternal life only belongs to those who believe on Christ. And those who believe on Christ only do so IF God the Spirit sovereignly enlivens them; aka: born from above, born again, made alive, etc.

In His grace,

As if you haven't been preaching Arminianism all along.

Any decent Reformed exegesis of this text (1Tim 2:1-4) in context will show you that at base "all men" does not mean all men without exception but all men without distinction. Yes, God loves and saves even some sinful human kings!


Thanks for the pleasantry, even though we are doing our best to compassionately talk Scriptural sense to an Arminian heretic.


It must be horrific for you to believe that your god is so impotent and spineless that he doesn't even have the power or will to accomplish what he intends or desires.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

You said:
Really... tell that to some of the greatest evangelists this world has ever seem. George Whitefield, William Carrie, just to name a few.

Tom

We forfitted our rights in paradise and now we are in a spiritual bind - we are dead in tresspasses and sins and God is under no obligation to show mercy unto us - fortunately God has provided hope for ALL MANKIND. And that hope is Jesus. So God has shown love and mercy to all mankind with the giving of His son. Also, He takes no pleasue in the condemnation of the reprobate. But He is righteous and just and will punish those who are unreconciled to Him. The fact that He pardons some is His perogative.

But I can't stress enough that we ARE responsible and accountable - if we've heard the true Gospel preached we are blessed and we know we can turn to GOd. If this kind of experiential Reformed preaching and foremost the reading of the Word melts our hearts and convicts us of sin - we can be sure that God has a hand in this and will not leave us in this dead state but will lift us out of despair. We musn't fight these difficult truths but accept them. The more spiritual knowledge and insight we receive the more accountable we are but also the more hope we should have that the work started by God will not be abandoned but be fully carried out to His glory and our good!

One thing is for sure Calvinistic/Reformed theology does not make one slack or disinterested in the spiritual welfare of others - quite the contrary, there is no greater Christian zeal than that of one who realizes God is in control and that we can rely on Him for all things because He is perfect, while we perform our duties as humble servants that desire to share the whole counsel of God with the hope that others may also be convicted of their sins and truely turn to GOd for mercy and forgiveness.

And one of the best exegetical studies of 1 Tim 2:4 can be found here: An Exegetical Study of 1Timothy 2:4, by Dr. Gary Long.

TO get back to Hyper-Calvinism I wanted to share this exchange. Over a week ago I e-mailed my friend and former-minister of my church a commentary I found on the internet regarding Hyper-Calvinsim. I included his response which I just received today -




I have a quick question, what exactly is hyper-Calvinism?

And is it fair for the likes of John Gill, William Gadsby, John Warburton, and J. C. Philpot to be labeled hyper-Calvinsits? I do realize they are all Baptists.

In my research I've encountered hyper-calvinism defined as:






You are asking a question which is not so easy to answer. It is exactly as you point out, “hyper-Calvinism” has many “definitions.” It is a term which apparently has been coined to refer to a doctrine that seems to go “beyond” Calvin’s doctrine concerning the sovereignty of God. You see in the very list of definitions you have found, that it is often an accusation by those who feel that in the preaching, the “gospel offer” is not “free” enough. In other words, they say that the minister does not “call” those who are insensible of their sin to “come to Christ” freely enough.



Let me try to explain something in order to make clear the complexity of this matter in the preaching by using a natural example. Let us suppose that you were in a room
with 10 people, all of which you know have cancer. Five of them know this, however, and five do not. What would you feel to be your responsibility? Would you tell all of
them to go to the physician? Indeed, I think I would. If you know they all are sick, you know they all need the physician, and I’m sure there is not anyone with any
compassion in their heart that would not tell them all to go to the physician. However, in a practical way, only five of them will listen to you, since the others see no need to
go. What are you going to do with the other five? Will you merely keep pleading with them to go to the physician? No, you would know very well in your own heart what you
would need to do, namely, you must begin at the beginning with them. You must endeavor to convince them that they are sick. This may not be very easy. You will have
to point out the symptoms, etc. As soon as they believe that they are indeed sick, convincing them to go to the physician is not difficult anymore.



Let me try to bring this example over, for a moment, to the preaching. I agree that the outward call goes out to the whole congregation. There is no other end that we desire
than that every person in the congregation would “go to Christ.” Certainly, they need to be told this. However, if this becomes the focus of my message to the unconverted,
my aim can never be reached. Though the call does go out to them, we must in a practical manner try to lead them there, step by step. The first and most important step
is to attempt to convince man of his misery. This he simply does not believe by nature and without truly believing this, he will never see any beauty in Christ or any reason
to “go to Him.” On the other hand, when a person is convinced of his misery, the greatest objection against “going to Christ” is taken away. At that point he often feels so sinful and unworthy that he will need to be encouraged to “go to Christ” just as he is, though he is “unworthy that He should come under his roof.” It is just for this reason that we read of those blessed invitations such as, “Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest,” and declarations such as “for the Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which is lost,” or “I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”



It is remarkable to me how people sometimes harp on this subject of the “gospel offer.” If I look at all the discourses of Christ Himself in the Bible, His parables, etc., I do not find much at all of this sort of thing. Instead, I find a very strong emphasis on “distinguishing” or “separating” or “taking forth the precious from the vile.” In other words, the Lord Jesus often made distinctions between those who were truly His Own people, and those who are not. Just think of the parables, for example, of the wise and foolish virgins, the rich man and Lazarus, the seed falling into different types of grounds, the good and bad fishes, the wheat and tares, the house built upon the rock and sand, etc, etc. In other words, the Lord Jesus often warned men not to deceive themselves, lest they “think to enter in and not be able.”



In the passage you quoted, it accuses Hyper-Calvinists of “twisting the gospel message” and “supplanting the good news about Christ’s death and resurrection by a
message about election and reprobation.” If a person thinks that the doctrine of predestination is a “supplantation” of the gospel message, he has obviously never truly
come into agreement with the sovereignty of God. As soon as a person is brought to the true realization of what he deserves because of his sin, and that God is right and
just to cast him away forever, that this is what he justly deserves, election becomes his only hope. If it were not for the fact that God has elected a Church to Himself,
every person in this world would have to be condemned. Thus, election is no “supplantation” of the gospel message. These two concur in every particular. Not only is it
“good news” to such a person that God has elected a people, but He has also sent His Son into the world to seek and to save them. Oh, how this opens a way to person
who indeed views himself as such a sinner. Then there is a possibility for me also! Wonder of wonders! Is this not the way that “the poor have hope?” So it is fulfilled that
the hungry are filled with good things, and the rich are sent empty away.



There is no other comfort in life or in death. We must ask the Lord to take away all that stands in the way, namely, all that is of myself. That is nothing more than a praying against ourselves. Of ourselves we will not do it. We maintain ourselves. And if the Lord will hear our
supplication, then we may be sure it will go very much against our flesh. But it will be to the profit of our souls. This is our wish for you and yours.



It is true that the Baptist ministers you mention do not speak so directly to the unconverted, as we try to do. On the other hand, their sermons are filled with spiritual life. If people condemn such sermons, I can hardly believe that they know spiritual life themselves. How much food for the souls of God’s people is contained therein, which sadly
is greatly lacking in our days. How much an “unconverted” person has to be jealous of when he hears such preaching! Thus, it far from lacks a message to the unconverted, if we may only listen with a little attention.

Well thanks for the clarification I have to day that I don't think fencing the table can be used as a legitimate example of hyper-calvinism.

How about you exegete a passage that supports your view first. We've presented a multitude of scripture that proves our view. Your response has been "that's your opinion" or "the opinion of Calvin and a few others". What makes your opinion better than theirs? Why should we provide the burden of proof when you haven't provided any?