The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum What is the Lombardian Formula

My pastor is really saved, as he was saved despite being in the Church of Rome at the time, and does NOT regard their Gospel as being the true one that saves lost sinners...

And still stand by the fact tht the Spirit can and deos take the message of the cross to lost sinners, and has those whom God intended to be saved by it to get saved, as how many persons right at time on conversion really knows the difference between arminian and calvistic doctrines, as they are convicted by god that they are lost sinners, jesus died for them, and receive Him as Lord to now get saved?

We are lost sinners, jesus died in the place of lost sinners as their sin bearer, and that the only hope is to place trust in him to save us!

You seem to be placing yourself in the position of playing God, and deciding just who caqn and does get saved!

the reformed/Calvinistic way of understanding just what the scriptures state is the method God uses to save lost sinners, and my contention is that many do not understand the nice divisions between calvinism and arminianism and other theology, but just know at time of conversion that they are lost sinners , Jesus died for them, and that their only hope is in Him!

The Holy spirit saves out the Elect in Christ unto salvation....

And I hold to the true Gospel that saves lost sinners, and do think that you hold to a far too narrowe and rigid viewpoint as to who actually are to be considered as being saved and part of the Body of Christ, and in the true church!

Its as cary thing to be able to judge if one is really saved or not, and jesus warned us against doing that to fellow Christians, as its the same Lord over all of us who will do that judgement!

JesusFan
By your response to Pligrim I have come to the conclusion that you have not comprehended what has been pointed out to you many occasions on this and other threads.
I find it very frustrating trying to communicate with you.
You keep saying the same things over and over again, rather than deal specifically with what has been asked of you.
Tom

I am just finding it very hard to understand how that we must all be calvinist in theology in order to have God save any of us, and also how we hold to calvinism being only way to view the Gospel , as see us as having the best way to view salvation, but not the only way ......

Face palm.

This will be my last communication with you because you are "incommunicado" by your own doing.

1. No one has suggested never mind demanded that a sinner have a comprehensive knowledge of Calvinism before they can be saved. I personally have stated this myriad times to you personally. Calvinism is a summary of biblical TRUTH as the Gospel encompasses the basic truths of Calvinism. Since Scripture incontrovertibly teaches that there is ONE Gospel which the Holy Spirit works through, either by hearing or by reading, then those immutable truths MUST BE present in the mind and heart of any sinner whom the Holy Spirit brings to Christ to some measure.

2. God's truth is ABSOLUTE Truth vs. your post-modern truth which is relative. Even a child can comprehend the fact that Calvinism is antithetical to ALL other religions including the various forms of modern Christianity, but particularly semi-Pelagianism. Calvinism is not the "best way to view the Gospel" but the ONLY WAY to view the Gospel since Calvinism IS the Gospel, to which even Spurgeon preached to the masses that came to hear him. Something cannot "be" and "not be" at the same time... but in your view you can have opposing views being compatible. That is sheer nonsense and illogical.

3. NO ONE is ever saved by agreeing to 3 or 4 statements about Christianity and then making a free-will decision to accept a false Jesus, believing in a false god (idol) which is brought to them in a false gospel. Further, NO ONE is ever saved without first being regenerated (born again) by the Spirit working through the true Gospel Who first brings a heart-felt conviction of sin which removes any self-dependence and self-righteousness of the sinner. True, Spirit-wrought faith is biblically saId to be "fiducia", i.e., it involves the whole man; intellect, affections and will. The plethora of false gospels which most hear today have no ability to bring about the necessary elements of genuine conversion.

4. I may be "narrow" compared to your errant view(s) but Scripture is perspicuous in teaching the same:

We will just have to leave this issue as being unsettles then, as I just do not see the criptures teaching that the Lord can only save when the calvinistic version of the Gospel is presented!

Do you also think that only Calvinists teach and have the real Gospel then?

You have your opinion is all but you have no Scriptural basis for anything you say. You are asked to use Scripture in your answers and you do not answer questions put to you. So it might be useless to ask you more questions, yet I will ask you this very important question. Have you ever wondered who Jesus was referring to in Matthew 7:23?


There is only one gospel and it is best expressed through Calvinism. There are "other" gospels but, they do not save.

Spurgeon put it this way
Augustine once said "If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself."

JesusFan
I can almost gaurantee that the way you worded that, people like RCSproul, John MacArthur, and any other Calvinist would disagree with you on that.

Tom

How would they have worded it? As I do believe that they would both agree with me on the gist of what I am trying to articulate here!

I just understand that the scriptures do not state that one gives calvinism when witnessing to lost sinners, but the Gospel itself!

Once saved by the Lord, then is a great time to introduce them to calvinism!

Calvinisn is the Gospel!
A friend mine who is a believer in the doctrines of grace, had never even heard of what Cakvinism was.
Yet, when it was explained to him, he stated boldly that is exactly what he believes. He didn't know there was a nickname for what he believed to be the Gospel, yet he recognized it as truth because that was the Gospel that he knew.
Tom

Exactly. The scales fall off the eyes of those who have been born again. They just did not have all the facts, and/or they did not logically connect all the facts, until they heard them presented as the system of doctrines known also as "Calvinism". This is very common among many believers and while not ideal, is not a problem. The Lord knows who His sheep are.

However, a person that hears the doctrines of grace, a.k.a. Calvinism, COMPREHENDS them and their scriptural basis, and yet stubbornly rejects them, is in grave spiritual danger. I am certain that if a person dies rejecting and deriding Calvinism, and has CORRECTLY understood it (God alone is able to discern this), he cannot have been saved, and is destined for eternal damnation. The reason, as Pilgrim has pointed out, is that they have put their faith in a God and Christ that is NOT the God and Christ of the Bible. I know I am going to attract flak and hate, but I'll say this anyway: we cannot be certain that Arminius and Wesley were saved.

This is how high the stakes are.

The $64 billion dollar question is this: Why were you saved, and the other person not, when you heard the Gospel preached? After all, the prevalent opinion is that God is an equal-opportunity God, and gives everybody a chance, even a second chance (prevenient grace, common grace, etc.). When push comes to shove, the only answer at the end of this trail is that you believed, and the other person did not. All things being equal, it was YOU who believed, and that was what made the difference!

No. No. No.

If you would like this expounded elegantly, may I recommend the following article

http://the-highway.com//grace_Pilgrim.html