The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Eph. 2:8-9 question

Talking to an Arminian about Eph. 2: 8-9 and he mentions something I am no expert on.
I believe it is safe to say that in these verses both grace and faith are gifts of God.
I am hoping someone can speak to the following better than I can?

Arminian:

No expert here, but the Arminian saying, 'is not of your own doing' rules out that Arminian position.

Probably more than you would like in an answer, but Dr. Joel Beeke's article linked below will certainly provide much from which you can choose what serves you best.

Justification by Faith Alone (The Relation of Faith to Justification)

I guess what I am asking is dealing directly with the Arminians comments themselves. I believe he said grace is in the dative sense, while faith is not, it in the genitive sense.

That is something that goes over my head.

This person's Greek grammar is faulty!!!

CONTEXT as always is important; both near and far. Look at 2:5 "even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved)". As stated in v.5 "by this grace (by it alone, the article to indicate the very grace just mentioned) have you been saved," etc. This repetition is emphatic: the past act of rescue plus the resultant condition of safety (periphrastic perfect) is entirely due to God (the agent in the passive) and to the grace He used faith as His means. The emphasis again is upon the dative. But now Paul expands the statement by adding "by means of (or through) faith," living trust in Christ and all His redemptive work. God accomplishes His purpose of delivering the Ephesians when by the power of His grace and the means of this grace (the Word) He kindled faith in their hearts. Faith is not something that we on our part produce and furnish toward our salvation but is produced in our hearts by God (regeneration by the Spirit) to accomplish His purpose in us.

Col. 2:12 states this directly: "through the faith of the operation of God." One often meets careless statements such as: "Grace is God's part, faith ours." Now the simple fact is that even in human relations faith and confidence are produced in us by others, by what they are and what they do; we never produce it ourselves. There is no self-produced faith; faith is wrought in us. Saving faith is wrought by the saving grace of God.

All is of God and so important is this matter that Paul adds explanatory specifications: "and this (is) not from yourselves." The neuter touto does not refer to pistis (faith) or to xaris (grace), both of which are feminine, but to the divine act of saving us: this that you have been saved Paul denies categorically that this is in any manner due to the Ephesians themselves. The source and origin ('ek) is not in you; it is wholly and only in God. As little as a dead man can do the least toward making himself alive, so little can the spiritually dead contribute the least toward obtaining spiritual life. Without a connective or even a copula Paul introduces the opposite: "God's the gift!" His and His alone. The emphasis is on the genitive. "The gift" (definite) = the salvation He has given to you. Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9).

I see this post was posted a few years ago, so if you would rather I dont bring up older posts, I apologize and will no longer do that. I am new here, and I see some very interesting posts, so I am finding some hard to resist.
I hope you don't mind if I reply.

Greetings Tom,

First, I'd like to say I believe it is obvious that grace and faith are both gifts. I mean, it's a gift of grace God is good to us ward. And it is a gift we are given the capacity to actually believe.
As scripture declares, "we are saved by grace." If that salvation has anything to do with us, scripture would have said so. But it does say what we are saved through. And that is faith!
It's seriously poor psychology to think that faith could ever be an arbitrary act of the will. To believe that man could ever believe or disbelieve because he chooses to do so.
But, if we believe it is because we have been saved by grace and by it given the capacity to believe. The fact of the matter is, Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God 1 John 5:1.
Anything short of a regenerate heart faith, then proceeds from the shallow of emotions.

Besides, does not faith always follow the judgment of the intellect, as to whether a thing is true or not? It's never a product of the will. We never believe a thing because we like to believe it or because we resolve to believe it. Otherwise faith is pretty much turned into a wish.

I believe scripture teaches that faith is a gift. Eph 2: 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Scripture tells us how we are saved. By grace, by God the Holy Spirit Himself. And that's it. But God allows us to be involved, since we are not robots but vessels of mercy. By His grace, we are given life (regeneration), and with this life comes faith, which is ours. Thanks be to God.





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The greek grammar construction would indicate that the entire "salvation package" would be the gift of God towards the redeemed in Christ Jesus