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J_Edwards #6057 Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:57 AM
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In my opinion, I think one can apply those verses and say that punk is ok if the lyrics are edifying to God because I think it is wisdom to use whatever tools are possible to get the Gospel to unbelievers.

#6058 Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:16 AM
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Unfortunately, as is most always the case when this topic comes up for discussion, most everyone here is arguing either for or against a certain "style" of music on subjective grounds and/or pragmatism. I firmly believe that one can and MUST scrutinize all forms of music from an objective standard and then bring in some of the more salient subjective elements. Of course, if one begins with a presupposition that everything is a-moral, then one can make a case to use or do anything as long as the intent is to glorify God, e.g., opening a "Christian bordello". [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/drop.gif" alt="drop" title="drop[/img]

It doesn't matter whether one likes of dislikes a type of music. What does matter is if the music is good in and of itself and most importantly, does it reflect God's attributes and will (aka: glorify God).

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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CovenantInBlood #6059 Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:00 AM
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I was indeed a punk before Jonny Rotten set fire to his toothbrush.

Now, as a Christian saved by The Blood of my Lord Jesus Christ , music has no dominion OVER ME as it might previously of had. Music is simply another tool to be used when needed , much the same as chocolate or tv or golf or hats...............IMHO

MOST christians that are known to me personally, will understand this comment as I hope you will do some day.

howard

#6060 Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:01 AM
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Howard,<br><br>I understand what you mean. It just was a bit of a surprise to me.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
CovenantInBlood #6061 Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:18 AM
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Life is full of surprises Kyle , get used to them . <br><br>I know you understand.<br><br>howard<br>

#6062 Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:31 AM
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Oi Howard

#6063 Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:52 AM
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Gabba , Gabba.

#6064 Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:57 AM
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What is edifying about other music, Howard?
Nothing in itself. Music is amoral. It is the content that is moral. I like bluegrass, which is frankly just as loud and fast as much rock music. And bluegrass gospel is not exactly slow. Rock music hurts my ears.

One bit of advice...we have been down this path before. Howard, you likely were not hear but this topic was covered in great detail earlier. Check it out if the thread is available.

And have a great day and weekend, everybody!

Steve


Grace is not common.
#6065 Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:04 PM
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Ooops, sorry, I did not catch the entire drift, I thought Howard was discussing "Christian" rock music.

No, Howard, people can NOT separate the lyrics from the music. I have never known anybody who could. That being said, secular music is not inherently bad.

Music without lyrics is amoral provided it does not cause you aggression. If rave music does not, then it is fine. It causes me to break out in hives [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/flee.gif" alt="flee" title="flee[/img], so I guess it is a problem for me? I'm sure listening to me play Foggy Mountain Breakdown on the banjo might do the same to you....

Steve C


Grace is not common.
Pilgrim #6066 Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:09 PM
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"What redeeming qualities can one find in "Rock 'n' Roll"?"

1) SOME are very talented musicians. We have one at our church. And he has written some very impressive songs (that are NOT played during the service.)

2) There does exist some very complex music. As a musician (albeit a bad one) I can appreciate the redeeming qualities of complex and challenging music.

Blessings,
Steve


Grace is not common.
li0scc0 #6067 Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:30 PM
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Steve,

Yes, we have been down this "rock(y) road" before. And I am always amazed how anyone can claim that music is "amoral". [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/drop.gif" alt="drop" title="drop[/img]

There have been a number of articles added to The Highway that deal with music, e.g.,:

Rock & Roll, the Bible and the Mind, by Tom Allen

Evaluating Music Intended for Christian Worship and Enjoyment, by Leonard J. Seidel

In His Grace,


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li0scc0 #6068 Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:28 AM
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If rock music hurts your ears , dont listen to it. <br><br>howard

#6069 Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:52 AM
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In reply to:
Whats edifying in classical music country, jazz, opera etc, etc ?



Can't say anything about country, opera, jazz, etc, etc, because I don't listen to it all that much. But classical music, ah, there's an easy one. Just take a look at the lyrics to some of Vivaldi's or Bach's choral music. Bach wrote primarily for the church. In fact, he composed new pieces every week for the services. Vivaldi's "Gloria in Excelsis Deo" is a pretty good example. The lyrics are entirely, "Gloria in Excelsis Deo". That's it. Glory o God in the Highest. If you ask me, I'd say that's derned God-glorifying. Or Bach's "Allein zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ". All to you, Lord Jesus Christ. Check out http://www.cpdl.org to find a lot more of Bach's Sacred Choral Music, or http://www.classicalarchives.com to hear the MIDI versions. Or, hey, how about Handel. "The Messiah". Or Mozart. Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. Amadeus means "Beloved of God". I imagine he might have been. His "Great Mass in C Minor" sounds pretty God-glorifying. But that's just my opinion.



In the midst of your sadness and woe, when you are tormented and afflicted, have comfort! God's will is done.
ReformedThinker #6070 Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:50 PM
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Dear JF2:

Amen, brother, and again I say amen.

Since you seem to be a lover of Handel's Messiah, I wonder if you might be able to help me a bit. A few years ago I had a cd of Handel's Messiah that had a copy of all the words included with it. Small print, but readable. As you know it is all scripture and there is a wonderful story behind it's composition, by Woychuck, but I'm getting off subject as usual.

Any way, I lost the cd and I wonder if you know of a good edition, I think mine was the London Philharmonic, but it wouldn't matter if it was a good quality and had the words with it. Short of that, do you know where I might get a copy of the words separately? One that came with the music would be better because I understand that the performance can vary and I would like the written copy to match the performed one as close as possible so I could follow along, but I would be willing to improvise.

Thanks in advance for anything you can advise.

Gerry

#6071 Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:37 PM
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Thanks, acts2027.

You might try http://www.naxos.com for the music. I think they have the entire Oratorio. As for the seperate lyrics, I imagine you could try www.Isaiah-40-in-the-Bible.com. They have it here, too:

http://www.worshipmap.com/lyrics/messiahtext.html


In the midst of your sadness and woe, when you are tormented and afflicted, have comfort! God's will is done.
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