I have been doing a little research on Augustine this week and came across some things I had forgotten about.
As all of you know Augustine embraced Manicheanism for a time: Here, Augustine in his refutation reflected on two major problems: the problem of good and evil and the relationship between faith and reason. Concerning Good and Evil, Manicheanism explained the existence of good and evil as the unavoidable product of a never-ending struggle between two coequal and co-eternal deities, one good and the other evil. Evil exists because the Good God (Light) is unable to defeat the Evil God (Darkness).
Augustine asserted that there was only one God and He was both GOOD and ALL-Powerful. Augustine, of course, asserted that Good and Evil are not equal forces in the universe. Evil is always subordinate to good. A parasite can never survive unless there is a separate and healthy organism upon which it can prey. Just like gossip (a parasite of truth) cannot exist unless there is truth (healthy organism)....of course there may be gossip about non-truth as well.
The part which I found rather fascinating "in its phraseology" was what he asserted about greater and lesser goods. He asserted that everything that God created was good, but that His creation contained certain degrees of goodness. By degrees he would say that a rock (lesser good) and a plant (greater good, as it has life as compared to the idle rock) were both good. Comparatively an animal is a greater good then a plant, because it posses powers a plant does not. Then he goes on further to assert that because humans can reason that their kind of existence is a greater good than animals. Obviously, God possesses the GREATEST GOOD of all.
Thus, to explain the existence of the first sin of the evil Lucifer, though created perfect, he choose a lesser good (himself) over the greater good (God). This explained to Augustine how evil could come into existence, into which existence no evil was created. Man likewise choose a lesser good (himself and his ways, thoughts) over the Greater Good (God). Augustine would assert when humans sin they usurp the rightful place of God in their lives. In this way, all sin amounts to sinful pride and subsequent rebellion against God and His will.
Thus, now that I have stated briefly Augustine's thought here, I would like to see how we may possibly biblically interact with a part of it in application. I am choosing something I am sure is common in all our churches and even possibly our lives--that is the sin of Gossip.
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Evil is always subordinate to good. A parasite can never survive unless there is a separate and healthy organism upon which it can prey. Just like gossip (a parasite of truth) cannot exist unless there is truth (healthy organism).....of course there may be gossip about non-truth as well.
Doesn't "part" of Augustine's argument here help us see the sinfulness of Gossip? Gossip a parasite of truth! This utterly makes one tremble does it not? That when one gossips he is not speaking truth, but is a parasite, a pest, a tool of the evil one sucking the blood (like a mosquito) out of the truth. Does this not show us even more so our depravity? The sinfulness of sin? If one speaks the truth of God about Christ and another gossips about "him" or "it" he is sucking the "blood" out of the truth of the Gospel, that being the very blood that Christ shed on Calvary! What a terrible sin.
Anyway take it away and discuss it. The question is "Do you choose the lesser communication (speaking is good, but when void of God it is evil) over greater communication (speak the truth be instant in season and out of season, or 9th commandment communication)?"
Joe I do wish you would warn me before posting something like that in the open forum here it is in wee hours of the morning and me with not a full dose of coffee and your posting something profound not on the Theology forum! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/yikes.gif" alt="yikes" title="yikes[/img] Bad Joe! Blowing my mind first thing in the morning [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/nono.gif" alt="nono" title="nono[/img]!<br><br>Now I have to go off and ponder! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/heavy.gif" alt="heavy" title="heavy[/img] [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/ohno.gif" alt="ohno" title="ohno[/img] [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/crybaby.gif" alt="crybaby" title="crybaby[/img]
<blockquote>[color:blue]Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.</font color=blue> (Genesis 1:3-5 NASB)</blockquote><br><br>And Jesus says to us, <br><br><blockquote>[color:red]Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.</font color=red> (Matthew 5:48 NASB)</blockquote><br><br>Therefore, at least this is how my mind works, we should, as God did, seperate [color:blue]"the light from the darkness"</font color=blue> in our lives and strive to not become "contaminated" by this parasite. And O what a sin it is to take suck blood from the preachers of the Word of God! May we ALL see the error of our ways and turn back to the God who saved us by His sovereign grace! And maybe my thoughts are way off, in which case you can forget I even said anything [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/shrug.gif" alt="shrug" title="shrug[/img]<br><br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Therefore, at least this is how my mind works, we should, as God did, separate "the light from the darkness" in our lives and strive to not become "contaminated" by this parasite. And O what a sin it is to take suck blood from the preachers of the Word of God! May we ALL see the error of our ways and turn back to the God who saved us by His sovereign grace! And maybe my thoughts are way off, in which case you can forget I even said anything.</font><hr></blockquote><p> Yes we are to be mature........but we are not and many times we choose the direction of LESSER COMMUNICATION over GREATER COMMUNICATION -- we gossip and tear down the truth. We literally suck the truth out of the Word of God. [color:red]Vampires of Pride</font color=red> may be a good phrase here in keeping with Augustine's thought. We become ineffective in our witness, word and deed by gossip. Though God's Word and Will, WILL STAND no matter how much our parasitic activity we subject it to, the devastation of what we do with our words is incredibly depraved. As James says,<br><br><blockquote>[color:blue]James 3:1-10 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.</blockquote></font color=blue> Our conduct and speech at times reeks of poisonous and nauseous fumes of [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/puke.gif" alt="puke" title="puke[/img].
In reply to:[color:"blue"]. . . the devastation of what we do with our words is incredibly depraved.
An illustration of how devastating can be is vividly presented by Rev. Van Reenen in his sermon on The Ninth Commandment.
You can not set right what your slandering has perverted. I am thinking of a minister whose life had been embittered by lies and slander. But when that man lay on his deathbed, the slanderers became so alarmed that they came with words of regret and asked him how they could make amends. Without many words he gave his slanderers a pillow and said, "Take this pillow and standing upon the tower, shake the feathers out of it. Then pick up the feathers again, put them in the pillow and place it under my head. Then you will have made amends for your evil conduct."
"But, sir," they said, "we shall not be able to do that! The wind shall scatter the feathers everywhere. We shall not be able to gather half of them."
"Thus," said the dying servant of God, "you cannot make amends, for your slander has also spread far and near. Ask forgiveness of God, seek reconciliation with the Father, in the atonement of the Son, by the work of the Holy Spirit."
That is the advice I give to all my fellow sinners with the sincere wish that the Lord grant you grace and power from above to follow that advice!
One who permits himself to hear the slanderous gossip of another is no less guilty of sin than the one who perpetrates this character assassination. Thus we need to not only guard our own tongue from delivering this poisonous communication, but also to prohibit it from being done in our hearing.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]One who permits himself to hear the slanderous gossip of another is no less guilty of sin than the one who perpetrates this character assassination. Thus we need to not only guard our own tongue from delivering this poisonous communication, but also to prohibit it from being done in our hearing.</font><hr></blockquote><p> Such a GOOD point and a GREAT article. Could you imagine, for instance, if someone here was to begin sending PMs and assassinating that character of one of the other posters instead of (1) privately PMing the alleged poster to tell them their fault between you and them alone (2) confronting them post to post openly, etc. (Matt 18:15-20). These actions (the gossip process) completely destroys any unity that may have existed between board members. The Gospel for the Gossiper is Gone! The Love of the Listener is Lost. Trust would be lost. Their integrity is shot. Churches are full of this kind-of-sin. Gossip is a dreadful sin for the listener, as well for the speaker!<br><br>Augustine did well in his phraseology. He helped to bring out by comparisons the dreadfulness of sin and the pride by which it survives. Of course, he had a good Book to go by. May God grant us continual ability, desire, and grace to forsake the sinfulness of sin.<br>
[color:purple]This may be off topic, and if so, let me know, but what about slander that is not done in "traditional" gossip "form"? Like...there is a person who speaks the truth of what the Bible clearly teaches and is constantly "hated" by people and offends people all the time? Would this be kinda the same sin just disguised in a different form or are these 2 completely different things? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/confused.gif" alt="confused" title="confused[/img]
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]This may be off topic, and if so, let me know, but what about slander that is not done in "traditional" gossip "form"? Like...there is a person who speaks the truth of what the Bible clearly teaches and is constantly "hated" by people and offends people all the time? </font><hr></blockquote><p> On Target.<br><br>I think though they are somewhat different, they are closely related and easily included in this thread. A VERY valid point. Christ, Paul, and others throughout history were/are hated for (1) who they were (2) what they represented (3) what they believed (4) what they stated (5) and how they stated it, etc.<br><br>I think many even today desire individuals to [color:red]schmooze</font color=red> (Pilgrim's Dictionary of Terms-PDT, [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]) over issues without ruffling feathers or pinning down other's beliefs. They say it is not loving to do such. They have the wrong definition of love and thus they begin to crawl down the tube of trouble in gossip and such. One could really wonder if they have any "true love" for the lost themselves. They make false accusations and like a mosquito become a pest drawing the blood from the arm of God's Word and sometimes depositing other diseases (malaria of malice) to the furtherance of the one true Gospel.
[color:purple]Alright. I didn't think I was way off or anything. But yeah. In my mind, I think outward slander and such leads to gossip. People start off telling it out loud to the person, and then, when the person doesn't give, they take it behind their backs and stuff like that. It's almost like a last resort thing to snuff the truth instead of "snuff the punk" as the old P.O.D. would say. (The punk being Satan). <br><br>I get that kinda stuff happening a lot to me and so that is why I asked. Not to brag at all. It's killer sometimes. And at the same time motivating, cuz Jesus said,<br><br><blockquote>[color:red]And ye shall be hated of all men for my Names sake: but whosoever shall endure unto the end, he shall be saved.</font color=red> [color:black](Mark 13:13 Geneva Bible)</font color=black></blockquote><br>And since it is for His Name's Sake, why complain? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/flatcat.gif" alt="flatcat" title="flatcat[/img]<br>
but he does make some good sense occasionally.
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can be is vividly presented by Rev. Van Reenen in his sermon on ![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/pilgrim/pil_sig2.gif)
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