David contrasts himself to the wicked previously described. David has divine assurance of the imputed righteousness of Christ. After death, the image of God will be fully restored to David but not to the wicked who lack any righteousness being spiritually dead and in bondage to sin.
Gen. 9:6
God made man in His image. Although knowledge of God, righteousness, and truth have been lost, unregenerate man remains a rational creature with an immortal soul. The law restrains his murderous impulses.
Psalm 17:15 As for me, I shall behold thy face in righteousness; I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with beholding thy form.
You described this verse and commented saying,
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David contrasts himself to the wicked previously described. David has divine assurance of the imputed righteousness of Christ. After death, the image of God will be fully restored to David but not to the wicked who lack any righteousness being spiritually dead and in bondage to sin.
By “fully restored” do you mean David has “some” of the image of God now and is only missing his true righteous, knowledge, and holiness, or do you mean he is missing the “image of God in totality? You probably meant the later. However, I DO NOT see where this Psalm said that David does not have ANY of the image of God NOW (see Van Til’s attachment). As matter a fact you are attempting to proof text and have removed its context. Calvin states,
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I shall be satisfied. Some interpreters, with more subtility than propriety, restrict this to the resurrection at the last day, as if David did not expect to experience in his heart a blessed joy until the life to come, and suspended every longing desire after it until he should attain to that life. I readily admit that this satisfaction of which he speaks will not in all respects be perfect before the last coming of Christ; but as the saints, when God causes some rays of the knowledge of his love to enter into their hearts, find great enjoyment in the light thus communicated, David justly calls this peace or joy of the Holy Spirit satisfaction.
Needless to say your analysis of the text does away with the faith of all the OT saints (i.e. no one had the image of God till after Christ). Did David have the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit in the “image of God,” one might say, “the express image of His likeness?”
However, if you restrict this Psalm to “the last day” (against Calvin, but like Wesley) then in reality you do not believe man will have the image of God till the final resurrection, or as Wesley says, “the image of God stamped upon my glorified soul.” Thus, no one is yet saved! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />
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Speratus articulates,
God made man in His image. Although knowledge of God, righteousness, and truth have been lost, unregenerate man remains a rational creature with an immortal soul. The law restrains his murderous impulses.
Your explanation fails to explain HOW the SCRIPTURE says man is STILL in the image of God AFTER the fall. Re-read the text:
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Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man.
This Scripture DOES NOT merely say man remained a rational soul, it rather says he is made in the image of God! R.C. Sproul states, “Since man is created in the image of God, an attack upon the human person is considered an attack upon God himself. To slay the image-bearer is to insult the One whose image is borne" (Chosen by God). In addition, you spoke of the law. As Pink stated, (An Exposition of the Sermon on the Mount),
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The “image” of God was broken and His “likeness” was greatly marred, though not completely effaced, for, as the apostle points out, the heathen which had not the Law in its written form “did by nature [some of] the things contained in the law,” and thereby they “showed the work of the law written in their hearts,” their conscience being proof of the same (Romans 2:14, 15). At the Fall, love for the Divine Law was supplanted by hatred, and submission and obedience gave place to enmity and opposition.
And Edwards adds (Religious Affections),
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As there are two kinds of attributes in God, according to our way of conceiving of him, his moral attributes, which are summed up in his holiness, and his natural attributes of strength, knowledge, etc., that constitute the greatness of God; so there is a twofold image of God in man, his moral or spiritual image, which is his holiness, that is the image of God’s moral excellency (which image was lost by the fall), and God’s natural image, consisting in man’s reason and understanding, his natural ability, and dominion over the creatures, which is the image of God’s natural attribute.
Moreover, while the dominion in Genesis 1:28 granted man is not the image, it is a consequence of man being the image of God. The dominion is a function of man, and not a quality of his nature. As John Owen notes (The Glory of Christ), “This representation, I say, of God, in power and rule, was not that image of God wherein man was created, but a consequent of it.” It was specifically commanded to man, upon the completion of His creation. Dominion was assigned to man over the whole world (Gen 1:26–27; Psa 8; 1 Cor 15:24–28; Heb 2:5–8). This dominion was the rationale for the “creation mandate” to fill the earth and subdue it (Gen 1:28). Being by nature equipped to have dominion over the earth, man has sought to fulfill this function, even as a sinner. Thus, the very act of a sinner desiring dominion reveals he still remains in the “image of God” in part!
By “fully restored” do you mean David has “some” of the image of God now and is only missing his true righteous, knowledge, and holiness, or do you mean he is missing the “image of God in totality? You probably meant the later. However, I DO NOT see where this Psalm said that David does not have ANY of the image of God NOW (see Van Til’s attachment). As matter a fact you are attempting to proof text and have removed its context. Calvin states,
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I shall be satisfied. Some interpreters, with more subtility than propriety, restrict this to the resurrection at the last day, as if David did not expect to experience in his heart a blessed joy until the life to come, and suspended every longing desire after it until he should attain to that life. I readily admit that this satisfaction of which he speaks will not in all respects be perfect before the last coming of Christ; but as the saints, when God causes some rays of the knowledge of his love to enter into their hearts, find great enjoyment in the light thus communicated, David justly calls this peace or joy of the Holy Spirit satisfaction.
Needless to say your analysis of the text does away with the faith of all the OT saints (i.e. no one had the image of God till after Christ). Did David have the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit in the “image of God,” one might say, “the express image of His likeness?”
However, if you restrict this Psalm to “the last day” (against Calvin, but like Wesley) then in reality you do not believe man will have the image of God till the final resurrection, or as Wesley says, “the image of God stamped upon my glorified soul.” Thus, no one is yet saved! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />
Sorry for my lack of clarity. Yes, the image of God is partially restored in the sense that the righteousness of Christ is imputed and the Holy Spirit enlightens the regenerate.
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J Edwards articulates,This Scripture DOES NOT merely say man remained a rational soul, it rather says he is made in the image of God! R.C. Sproul states, “Since man is created in the image of God, an attack upon the human person is considered an attack upon God himself. To slay the image-bearer is to insult the One whose image is borne" (Chosen by God). In addition, you spoke of the law. As Pink stated, (An Exposition of the Sermon on the Mount),
Quote
The “image” of God was broken and His “likeness” was greatly marred, though not completely effaced, for, as the apostle points out, the heathen which had not the Law in its written form “did by nature [some of] the things contained in the law,” and thereby they “showed the work of the law written in their hearts,” their conscience being proof of the same (Romans 2:14, 15). At the Fall, love for the Divine Law was supplanted by hatred, and submission and obedience gave place to enmity and opposition.
And Edwards adds (Religious Affections),
Quote
As there are two kinds of attributes in God, according to our way of conceiving of him, his moral attributes, which are summed up in his holiness, and his natural attributes of strength, knowledge, etc., that constitute the greatness of God; so there is a twofold image of God in man, his moral or spiritual image, which is his holiness, that is the image of God’s moral excellency (which image was lost by the fall), and God’s natural image, consisting in man’s reason and understanding, his natural ability, and dominion over the creatures, which is the image of God’s natural attribute.
Finally, a Reform theologian who rightly distinguishes between the moral or spiritual attributes which are lost and the natural attributes which are not lost. Does Edwards teach that these natural attributes are propagated by procreation?
Unregenerate man posesses natural reason and understanding but no moral excellency. He is spiritually dead and does everything to escape punishment and obtain rewards. His outward acts of obediance that appear good are really evil. God gives him the law he craves in order to curb his gross acts of depravity.
Finally, a Reform theologian who rightly distinguishes between the moral or spiritual attributes which are lost and the natural attributes which are not lost.
So do you believe "part" of the image of God exists after the Fall? YES or NO (please don't add an explanation, just YES or NO)
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Does Edwards teach that these natural attributes are propagated by procreation?
Traducianism was held by many Church Fathers: Tertullian, Rufinus, Apollinarus and Gregory of Nyssa. Lutherans as well as Jonathan Edwards, Shedd, Strong, and (with reservations) even Buswell, however just because someone holds to it does not make it correct. YOU must still PROVE it from Scripture. Yale University Press has all JE's writings in print (23 vols) if you care to use his arguments ... your library may have a set ... (however at app 2K a set they may not).
speratus said: No, in those who bear the image of Satan.
Incredible!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" /> I learned for the first time, thanks to you, that Satan is capable of the propagation of human souls. Ya know, speratus, before you came here and started what you probably believe is a defense of Lutheranism, I held Lutherans in high regard. The only hope I have of retaining that high regard is that what you are espousing is your own distorted personal views. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />
speratus said: No, in those who bear the image of Satan.
Incredible!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" /> I learned for the first time, thanks to you, that Satan is capable of the propagation of human souls. Ya know, speratus, before you came here and started what you probably believe is a defense of Lutheranism, I held Lutherans in high regard. The only hope I have to retaining that high regard is that what you are espousing is your own distorted personal views. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />
1. I did not say that Satan propagated souls. Furthermore, the image of Satan is an accident and not of the substance of man. 2. I first learned of this view through my reading of Reform theologicians; however, I believe that it is consistent with both Reform and Lutheran historic doctrines of the Fall and, more importantly, with scripture.
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The Doctrine of Sanctification, A. W. Pink Even among those preachers who desire to be regarded as orthodox, who do not deny the Fall as a historical fact, few among them perceive the dire effects and extent thereof. "Bruised by the fall," as one popular hymn puts it, states the truth far too mildly; yea, entirely misstates it. Through the breach of the first covenant all men have lost the image of God, and now bear the image of the Devil (John 8:44). The whole of their faculties are so depraved that they can neither think (2 Cor. 3:5), speak, nor do anything truly good and acceptable unto God. They are by birth, altogether unholy, unclean, loathsome and abominable in nature, heart, and life; and it is altogether beyond their power to change themselves.
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NATURAL MEN IN A DREADFUL CONDITION, J. EdwardsNatural men are in the image of the devil. The image of God is rased out, and the image of the devil is stamped upon them.
Please if you ae going to qote people like J_Edwards keep him in context:
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The hearts of natural men are exceedingly full of sin. If they had but one sin in their hearts, it would be sufficient to render their condition very dreadful. But they have not only one sin, but all manner of sin. There is every kind of lust. The heart is a mere sink of sin, a fountain of corruption, whence issue all manner of filthy streams. Mark 7:21, 22, From within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornication s, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. There is no one lust in the heart of the devil, that is not in the heart of man. Natural men are in the image of the devil. The image of God is rased out, and the image of the devil is stamped upon them. God is graciously pleased to restrain the wickedness of men, principally by fear and respect to their credit and reputation, and by education. And if it were not for such restraints as these, there is no kind of wickedness that men would not commit, whenever it came in their way. The commission of those things, at the mention of which men are now ready to start, and seem to be shocked when they hear them read, would be common and general; and earth would be a kind of hell. What would not natural men do if they were not afraid? Mat. 7:17, But beware of men. Men have not only every kind of lust, and wicked and perverse dispositions in their hearts, but they have them to a dreadful degree. There is not only pride, but an amazing degree of it: pride, whereby a man is disposed to set himself even above the throne of God itself. The hearts of natural men are mere sinks of sensuality. Man is become like a beast in placing his happiness in sensual enjoyments. The heart is full of the most loathsome lusts. The souls of natural men are more vile and abominable than any reptile. If God should open a window in the heart so that we might look into it, it would be the most loathsome spectacle that ever was set before our eyes. There is not only malice in the hearts of natural men, but a fountain of it. Men naturally therefore deserve the language applied to them by Christ, Mat. 3:7, O generation of vipers; and Mat. 23:33, Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers. Men, if it were not for fear and other such restraints, would not only commit all manner of sin, but to what degree, to what length would they not proceed! What has a natural man to keep him from openly blaspheming God, as much as any of the devils; yea, from dethroning him, if that were possible, and fear and other such restraints were out of the way? Yea, would it not be thus with many of those, who now appear with a fair face, and will speak most of God, and make many pretenses of worshipping and serving him? The exceeding wickedness of natural men appears abundantly in the sins they commit, notwithstanding all these restraints. Every natural man, if he reflects, may see enough to show him how exceedingly sinful he is. Sin flows from the heart as constantly as water flows from a fountain. Jer. 6:7, As a fountain casteth out her waters, so she casteth out her wickedness. And this wickedness, that so abounds in their hearts, has dominion over them. They are slaves to it. Rom. 7:14, Sold under sin. They are so under the power of sin, that they are driven on by their lusts in a course against their own conscience, and against their own interest. They are hurried on to their own ruin, and that at the same time their reason tells them, it will probably be their ruin. 2 Pet. 2:14, Cannot cease from sin. On account of wicked men s being so under the power of sin, the heart of man is said to be desperately wicked. Jer. 17:9 and Eph. 2:1, Dead in trespasses and sins.
Marvelous writing! After reading "Natural Men in a Dreadful Condition", I have a strong desire to read all 23 volumes. Unlike many Reform and Lutheran dogmaticians, Edwards preaches a Fall that marks men with the image of Satan, not a Stumble that leaves men with some tattered remains of the image of God.
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