The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum The begotten God Heresy

Begottenness describes the personal relationship of the Son to the Father. IT DOES NOT DESCRIBE THE ORIGIN OF THE SON. All three Persons of the Holy Trinity have always existed, but they have always existed in personal relationships to each other. It is NOT as though the Father decided one day that He would beget a Son, and the next day that He would process a Holy Spirit! These three have always existed in the divine Unity; but again, they have existed in relationship to one another, the Son begotten of the Father, the Spirit proceeding from the Father & the Son. They are not individual beings which can be separated from each other, as though the Father exists apart from the Son, or the Son apart from the Father, or the Spirit apart from either.

This is heretical. The human nature of Jesus Christ did not exist "before all worlds"; it came into existence when the Holy Ghost overshadowed Mary & caused her to conceive a Son. The human nature of the Son came into existence in the womb of Mary. With respect to the Trinity, the human nature of the Son was CREATED IN TIME. To say that His humanity was begotten of the Father is to attribute humanity to the Godhead as an essential property, which is utterly blasphemous.

I'm quite aware of who Justin Martyr is. But you're going to have to do better than to say that it's somewhere in his Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, which has 152 chapters. Point me to the precise passage where Justin Martyr says something along these lines: "Here, we need to reconcile Jewish Unitarianism with Greek paganism, and here's how to do it: the Son is eternally begotten of the Father." Otherwise, quit blowing hot air! It is more than evident that you are parroting someone else's teaching rather than examining the Scripture & studying church history for yourself. Frankly, I doubt you've ever read a single word of Justin Martyr that wasn't being quoted by somebody else!

And how many more times are you going to have to make this statement of truth?

For biblical support that teaches this very thing see here:

To anyone who has read the Scriptures, it should be obvious that Isaac wasn't Abraham's only son, for he had another and previous son, Ishmael, who Hagar rightly bore for him (cf. Leverite Law). Isaac, however, was the only begotten son of Abraham, i.e., Isaac alone out of all of Abraham's children was given the distinction of honor. The offering up of Isaac, Abraham's only begotten son was a shadow and type of the Father offering up His only begotten Son, an undeniable truth and a precious one to be cherished. This can also be seen in regard to the resurrection of Jesus where God the Father declared, "this day have I begotten Thee" (Acts 13:33; 1Jh 4:9). Though there are many "sons of God"; men (Gen 6:2; Jh 1:12; Rom 8:14; 1Jh 3:1, 2) and angels (Job 1:6; 2:1), there is but One Who is given a place of honor, the Only Begotten One, the Son of God both from eternity and in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

In His grace,

I am not trying to persuade you, thats up to God, all i am doing is preaching the Truth, God holds you accountable for the truth you reject..

Your going to be held accountable to what you believe and teach..i dont care if you accept what i have shared or not..but if you believe in a begotten deity, thats blasphemy, wether you agree or not..

Yes Jesus christ was the Mediator between God and Man before the fall..and if Mediator then 1 tim 2:

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Now, are you denying the Mediatoralship of Jesus christ before the world began ?

You dont even understand the nicene creed then ..The creed teaches that The Son in His Deity was begotten of God..do you believe this or not ? And quit all the diuble talking..

Anthony, is this your way of admitting that you cannot supply the exact source of that quote? I'm going to guess that you don't possess the volume of Justin Martyr's writings, nor have you even read the quote itself. But rather, you simply read a statement made by some Particular Baptist "noble" and accepted it as truth.

Ya know, those who are ensnared by cults have a very similar problem. For example, those deceived by the writings of Jehovah's Witnesses believe everything and anything that they read in the publications of the "Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society" of Brooklyn, New York. You can show these people Scripture, after Scripture, after Scripture, try and reason with them using good sound logic and even common sense, but they will not listen to anything that doesn't conform to the "official writings" of the Watch Tower consortium. The Bible is interpreted via a JW hermeneutic. The same is fashionably true of the Mormons as well, only Joseph Smith was given gold spectacles, which doubtless trump those worn by Joseph "Judge" Franklin Rutherford.

You have to be kidding, are you that blind ? Look, here is the creed itsself:

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

The creed teaches a begotten deity, thats blashemy..

Thats all the proof one needs to show, you can deny it, twist it, double talk it, but its still degrading and blasphemous to The Eternal Deity..Gods are not begotten..

You haven't shared anything, just a vague referrence to Justin Martyr's lengthy writing, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew. I asked you to tell me where in the Dialogue you have read what you're talking about. As to a "begotten deity" being blasphemy, you're going to have to demonstrate that by showing it from Scripture. Furthermore, you need to provide evidence for your claim that "begotten deity" is from Greek philosophy or myth.

Still playing that same broken record and still avoiding answering direct questions, eh?

1. The Nicene Creed doesn't teach "God begot God".
2. No one who understands the Creed believes it teaches "God begot God".
3. No biblical Trinitarian believes that "God begot God".
4. The Particular Baptists to whom you have joined in allegiance are the ones who twist, turn, distort what the Nicene Creed teaches.

And lastly, I'm not blind... just so you know. CovenantInBlood asked for the Justin Martyr quote; the exact reference. I also wanted to know where this quote from Justin Martyr could be found and so I also asked. You can avoid providing the quote, at least in your own mind, but the question still remains... "What is the reference to the quote you provided that Justin Martyr allegedly wrote?" It is only right you provide this information since you are resting upon that quote as evidence that God begot God. We would like to read that quote for ourselves IN CONTEXT to see if Justin Martyr actually wrote what you say he did.

Okay, now be a good boy and play by the rules. If you provide a citation, you must provide the source so it can be verified. Can you do this or not?

What I am denying is that the Word possessed a human nature before the world began. But you have some issues to deal with, anyway: man did not need a mediator prior to the Fall, since man was unfallen & not in need of salvation. The Son is eternally Mediator only in the sense that He agreed with the Father from eternity to fulfill this role in time.

Sorry, Anthony, but it is YOU who evidently doesn't understand the Nicene Creed. Yes, begottenness has referrence to the deity of the Son in the Nicene Creed, I've been very clear about this. However, it's not about the "origin" of the Son, but rather the relationship of the Son in His deity to the Father.

And don't accuse me of double-talk, a violation of the 9th Commandment, without at least doing everyone here the courtesy of showing in what my supposed double-talk consists.

Yes i have, how do you think this thread started..now its on you if you continue to cleave to your sorceries..there is no such freakazoid as a begotten Deity..thats a shame to even think of the Most blessed Being ever..