The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Calvinism

Notice your link doesn't work but of course this falls in line with the usual tactic instead of dealing with the matter at hand, when in doubt, produce another article. What stands stands. In your commentary next, like a calvinist, as always, you do everything possible to belittle free-will in the Garden of Eden, the common theme, which of course a man of God must reject in the name of the Lord for God's elect, not unconditional, but condition for God is equal to us all and does not play favorites belittling God's Word to a genie in the bottle. Indeed a man is dead, fully dead, for he has not received Christ, not half-dead, for that is not what a spark means. A spark does not deny God's bestowment of the grace of free-will before the foundation of the world, but what I most adamantly reject in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is that free-will God gave us in His image that you reject and belittle it as having to be half-dead in order to receive Christ. Not at all, nothing of the kind. Like I said, it does not matter how many times it sins or how dead it is, it has a free-will to accept God not zombistically, non-predeterminably and non-preselectibly, but yes, definitely foreknown and yes, definitely predestined. Amen.<br><br>Though you falsely accuse of me of being a god unto myself, though I am saved unto eternal life, you must at some point, before it is too late, realize that by which you accuse is that which you suffer actually convicting yourself that you are a "god unto yourself" one that says "God chose me and not others in this demented game of preprogramming people to hell". This is not loving, and this is not freedom, but this is bondage before they even had a chance. Your God is hateful, sick, demented God, and I hate him, and all its evil. <br><br>This is why they forsake this claim, but you care to get into my spelling mistakes of arminianism and to falsely accuse of gnosticism that by which you suffer over grace of God claiming gnostically that you were chosen over those predestined to hell. This to me is the most pretentious prideful arrogant thing I have ever heard and 5% is too generous to be sure. <br><br><br>I really think the sickness of calvinism starts with total depravity and in this initial mistaken assumption, for man is not totally deprave, in the sense there will never be any means of restoration from the unfettered free-will for of course that is not true because many men through the centuries have been saved because they came to the cross as a helpless sinners even though they were previously without life yet they came, by the grace of being made in the image of God, and received the Lord Jesus. My finding is that those who reject this and belittle it and stress a total depravity of man so that zombistically is the only way to be received, is a priding oneself over others, and it is unethical, making men of God cringe at the depths with the evil spirit will go to manipulate the Word of God. I can see why he does this in men because his time is running short.<br>

waronthesaints,<br><br>I'm not going to respond to most everything you wrote because I have already addressed them. Your inability to accept the Scriptures or even read them without injecting your humanistic philosophy into them, if one could even call it that, makes it impossible to converse with you intelligently. (1Cor 2:14) But I do thank you for stating this:<blockquote>for a calvinist must always say "I did not choose God, God choose me . . .</blockquote>I thank you for unintentionally exalting Calvinism as that which was taught by the Lord Christ, the Sovereign Redeemer Who saves whom HE will and said:<blockquote>John 15:16 (KJV) "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."<br><br>And the apostle Paul echoes his Lord's teaching also when he said of those who are found in Christ:<br><br>2 Thessalonians 2:13 (KJV) "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"</blockquote>Remember, Lazarus didn't petition Jesus to be restored to life as he was DEAD 4 days in the tomb. Thus it is utter foolishness to suggest that a man born "dead" can choose or receive Christ before he is born again. Again, your willful refusal to accept the clear and plain teaching of John 1:12, 13, which is merely indicative of your obstinacy against God's sovereignty in salvation may lead to your utter destruction.<br><br>Oh.... btw.... it is ARMINIANISM, not armenianism. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Notice your link doesn't work but of course this falls in line with the usual tactic instead of dealing with the matter at hand, when in doubt, produce another article. </font><hr></blockquote><p> <br>So you are saying the arguments rendered to you thus far fail because of a network fault? Besides the fact that I have not seen a cogent response to Pilgrim regarding the grammatical reading of John 1:12-13 (try diagramming it out for us in both English and Greek if you are capable) and I suspect you won't read the articles given to you which respond to your accusations because the big words frighten you. However, if by some chance you do in fact read. Try this link God's Will and Man's Will or this one or here. Let me know I can find more.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]This is not loving, and this is not freedom, but this is bondage before they even had a chance. Your God is hateful, sick, demented God, and I hate him, and all its evil. </font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Ro 1:30-32)<br><br>And from your own lips you have justly condemned yourself because you dare to answer back to God saying to Him what have you done. Rom 9:20; Job 9:12; Dan. 4:35.<br><br><br>

Men are so vain. They think that if they interject in their commentary scripture, that somehow this vindicates them, but as we have seen your view circumvents the very scripture you yourself cite each time because it denies one central aspect which is that God cares for His Image and that is who He wants to walk with, not a zombie, but you don't care for this at all. You provide false accussations readily quotable "humanistic philosophy", "intelligently", yet these are the very things by which you yourself suffer for that is what calvinism is, humanistic philosophy unintelligent. But I would add one more thing. That is disprespectful, because never do you address the central theme of my proof against calvinism but find ways to deflect from it. What is that central theme? God gave us a free-will bestowed in His image and He does not mess with it, meaning, He does not predetermine it, nor preselect it, or premanipulate it. You gloss over this disprespectfully and do not see how God's loving nature makes this so central to His creation. You blank your mind over this and deaden your spirit to this essential fact that nullifies calvinism and exalts total depravity and zombiism and are unable to see this interaction in its unsalvation, and how impersonal such a god would be yet you accept him fully without any consideration of what I am saying to you and why I find him to be so ugly and impersonal and demented. <br><br>See how your manipulation is at work here. I said calvinists say "God chose me, but not you" and "I did not choose God, God choose me, I was just a pawn", but you only quote that part you want to hear which is still prideful, "I did not choose God, God choose me . . ." unable to see the pawn part and how you use this to pride yourself over others. Imagine a pride of being chosen by God but that you never came to Him. I would suggest to you that this god you speak of did indeed choose you because the God of the Bible requires our consent. This god that has chosen you never required your consent so may I say he is not the true God, for he came to you in a state of passivity like Pentecostals receive their god. You are very similar this way. though you have no way of understanding without God's life, at least spend some time pondering these words for if it is God's will for you to receive Him, and I can assure you that it is, then you can accept Him non-calvinistically, and Christ will defeat this spirit in you that clings to calvinism.<br><br>You misused John 15.16 because as you know God's choses us because of giving us a means to receive Him, that is how He choses us who receive Him. Calvinistically, you read this another way, because you take it legastically and in so doing read it whereby you were a zombie pawn chosen not realizing God requires your consent, though the god of calvinism needs no consent at all, none whatsover, so this is how you can know you have received something else.<br><br>In 2 thess 2.13 know why the saved are chosen before the foundation of the world. if you take this scripture legalistically, you become a calvinist. But if you accept the fullness of God's Word you realize that the saved are chosen from the beginning because God in His righteous bestowment of free-will knows who would receive Him ahead of time a foreknowledge omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent. This is wholly different that this god you believe in that zombifies you and prides you over others whom premeditates people to hell. It makes your god a murder. That is sick and demented. You have no idea how sick your god really is. He is Satan no less.<br><br>Lazarus qualified for life from the tomb. You need only know this, for its proof is in the fact that Jesus removed him from the tomb. Praise the Lord. THe Lord will not resurrect a man from the bad side of Hades to eternal life if God does not see it fit or righteous to do so, but Lazarus righteously qualified. We can know that God will not do something unrighteously.<br><br>Similarly men who are bereft by the fall, are not so desolate that God's original grace of free-will can not come to the Lord. This is the true condition and state of mankind, not the state calvinism teaches which messes up what we might call biblical psychology, totally not reflecting man's true condition. It teaches a different theology otherwise one that lowers the conscience, zombifies man, prides oneself over those preselected for hell, for have you ever heard of anything so demented? It totally takes the emphasis of what matters, that is the choice of coming to Christ, so much so that many who hear about calvinism are at a loss because they never receive the feelings of being chosen when they don't realize that it is not the feelings but the belief, the choice, the faith of believing the truth in Christ.<br><br>Though your god falsely accusses me of "willful refusal to accept the clear and plain teaching of John 1:12, 13", I have the scriptures in my heart accurately in the Holy Spirit, as you call this to the Jews, when it is for us all, and it says "but as many as received him" shows the requirement of reception, that the fullness of scripture, not the misuse of scripture to legalize calvinism into it. This is why quoting scripture is so hypocritical because it is being used to back a lie, falsely accuse, for that is how deceitful the demonic spirit of calvinism is, though pentecostals do the same thing. I love comparing pentecostalism and calvinism for they are so similar, one unto passivity of today's tongues (not biblical tongues which are for today) with the false prophet, and calvinism's passivity unto killing the free-will by denying we are made in God's image and idolatrizing total depravity to suggest we are zombie selectees, also a passivity of spirit and blanking out of the mind, both requiring no consent of the person, totally against biblical psychology.<br><br>God has sovereignty, and he works it, and man has sovereignty and God does not mess with it like the demons of pentecostalism and calvinism that require the passivity of man and the blanking out of the man's mind, the two vital requirements for the evil spirits entry and for garnering a stonghold of false mistaken assumptions.<br><br>Indeed, the choice is clear, these lead to utter destruction. You have made your choice it seems. I would not want to be in your shoes for this choice you have made is reflection of your true heart, but it need not remain so, you can come to Christ, the true Christ and the God of armenianism of the Bible. With my God there is always still away for you to receive Him, but under the death of calvinism it is already predecided passivity false claims and pentecostalism it needs today's tongues passivities.<br><br>Come, come now.<br><br><br><br><br>

It is merely a reiteration of the same old tactic of calvinism to disrespectfully never deal with the central point of armenianism, but always to deflect onto much other thought. I have fully addressed John 1.12-13, and to totally diminish it as uncogent is more of that same old unholy disprectful response. You need not have a greek study to accept its clarity that says "but as many as received him". They received him. Amen. They fulfilled the condition for salvation. More false accusations follow as per the norm which I will detail as I see them, "frighten you", "do in fact read". I read one of your articles, and it is the same old thing, an unwillingness in that article to deal with the central point at hand, so until you stop being disrespectful and acknowledge the central point of armenianism that debunks calvinism, how can you expect others to read 1001 articles. Can you find it in yourself to accept that God has made us in His image? Why is this so hard for you to accept and that under such an image man could never be totally deprave? That is a lie. And as soon as this is proven in your heart all of calvinism dies, and becomes just a cult following of altering scripture through legalizing only focusing on aspect of the scriptures not seeing its fullness.<br><br>Your misuse of scripture is indeed a blasphemy to the Lord for you use at Satan does to accuse without the truth in your heart. We indeed should hate those things of the devil like calvinism where it prides its theology on God preselecting those to hell. I hate this, and I will always hate this lie and liers who lie this lie over and over and their conscience has no concern for this passivity and dementia they suffer. Shame on you. I have answered to God on this and he has protected me with His covering because He too hates this just as much as I do, even more. <br><br>Oh how you manipulate with scripture to protect the demon of calvinism. I hand you back to God and let him deal with you when resurrected out of the bad side of Hades to GWT to the lake of fire if you continue to refuse Jesus Christ who is not blank in mind nor passive in spirit, whom we can receive and God choses those whom receive Him.<br><br>Your continued effort to take the eye off of the doorway to Christ which is equally righteously fair to all, and place it on preselectism is so sinful you have no idea.<br><br>Your god is a racist. I bet lots of germans are calvinists from world war II who believed in a superior race killing jews.

I am here to help lead people to Christ. I saw a need, and I filled it, for those who hath an ear to hear. I am a member of the body of Christ, the true church, not involved in little harlots, sorry.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]That is disprespectful, because never do you address the central theme of my proof against calvinism but find ways to deflect from it. What is that central theme? God gave us a free-will bestowed in His image and He does not mess with it, . . . blah, blah, blah. . .</font><hr></blockquote><p>Enough of the silly rhetoric, please? You have offered not ONE single text of Scripture to support this man-made notion that "God respects His image", etc., and thus the alleged "free-will" which you say Adam had in the Garden wasn't lost at the Fall when he died, yet lived. Others have quoted from Romans 9, e.g., Prestor John, yet you totally ignore these texts as you have the ones I have given and even briefly exegeted for you. The fact is, much to your distaste, is that God created some men for glory and some for damnation; both for HIS own glory.<br><br>You have no "proof" against Calvinism because there isn't one. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img] I haven't misused John 15:16 because it has never been mentioned in any of the posts here by anyone?? <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]In 2 thess 2.13 know why the saved are chosen before the foundation of the world. if you take this scripture legalistically, you become a calvinist. But if you accept the fullness of God's Word you realize that the saved are chosen from the beginning because God in His righteous bestowment of free-will knows who would receive Him ahead of time a foreknowledge omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Yeh, so you keep saying.... but again where is the biblical teaching, evidence, texts, etc. to support this?? Hey, where's the beef? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]It is merely a reiteration of the same old tactic of Calvinism to disrespectfully never deal with the central point of armenianism, but always to deflect onto much other thought. I have fully addressed John 1.12-13, and to totally diminish it as uncogent is more of that same old unholy disprectful response. You need not have a greek study to accept its clarity that says "but as many as received him". They received him. Amen. They fulfilled the condition for salvation.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Okay Sunny Jim let's get something straight Arminianism is the doctrine purposed by the followers of Jacob Arminius, Armenians are inhabitants of Armenia try to get the spelling correct because I still haven't figured out what Armenia has to do with free will. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]<br><br>Second on John 1:12-13, no you didn't address it you made assertions about the verses but never really brought anything to the table that even came close to a real exegete of the verse. And while the perspicuity of the verse is made clear through the Holy Spirit to actually understand what it says must come about through the rules of grammar which Pilgrim illustrated fully. You have yet to do so.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] I read one of your articles, and it is the same old thing, an unwillingness in that article to deal with the central point at hand, so until you stop being disrespectful and acknowledge the central point of armenianism that debunks calvinism, how can you expect others to read 1001 articles. Can you find it in yourself to accept that God has made us in His image? <span style="background-color:yellow;">Why is this so hard for you to accept and that under such an image man could never be totally deprave? That is a lie.</span> And as soon as this is proven in your heart all of calvinism dies, and becomes just a cult following of altering scripture through legalizing only focusing on aspect of the scriptures not seeing its fullness.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>And here again you deny the fall was total in its nature. Sin hasn't effected all of us even though scripture clearly illustrates the contrary. (Ps. 58:3; 51:5;<br>Gen. 6:5; Eph. 2:1-3; Co. 2:13) I freely acknowledge that I was made in the image of God. I also freely acknowledge that image was corrupted by what Adam did (Romans 5:12) and that now because of depraved will wanting to do only those things that are against God. (John 8:34; Romans 3:9-17). <br><br>Until you sir realize that God has indeed through his Holy Word described our condition I fear that it will be you and not I who stands before the Great White throne.<br><br>BTW you didn't tel me what church you attended nor your reasons for coming to this forum.<br><br><br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I am here to help lead people to Christ. I saw a need, and I filled it, for those who hath an ear to hear. I am a member of the body of Christ, the true church, not involved in little harlots, sorry. </font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Well that is all well and good mind giving me a name to go along with that church? I go to New Hope CRC just in case you wanted to know. And frankly I'm not involved with big or little harlots. Perhaps you should re-phrase that for your own good.

Do you see your response "blah, blah, blah", "silly rheteroic" and now you disrespect God after the verses that I have supplied, you suggest that it is not true that "God respects His image". I am really not sure how hostile to God you need to get, but this is the worse, then you go on to say "alleged free-will" to further disprect free choice. I have quoted every verse cited against me then you accuse me of "ignored these texts" where I show how you misread those texts, yet you accuse me of them anyway. Now the real kicker where you admit your sick cult when you say "God created some men for glory and some for damnation; both for HIS own glory" priding yourself over this in your god. This is not my God and never will be, how truly insane and of dead conscience the very deadness you claim you have been removed from total depravity - rather you were deprave and are even only more fargone now into more total depravity but the God of love and truth says you can come out of it. I think what is really sick about this claim is that you call preselecting men for damnation as "His own glory". Men going to hell is not glory, but nevertheless where they belong like 95%+ of calvanists. I suspect the calvinists that are saved are those that are but newbies and still ignorant but those with the knowledge expose their true condition if they stay in the frey. You sound like one of those along with the pastor. God help you guys. Are you ready for the lake of fire?<br><br>I have a full proof against Calvinism even though you falsely accuse me that I don't. The proof is in Genensis 1.26,27 and that is as simple as one can get, a perfect defense along with John 1.12. Jhn 15.16 was used, and misused. For they can only legalize this scripture but do not see the Holy Spirit of it. Let it be known what you are and where you are going. You need to know this about yourself so you are under no false delusion and you can't say a member of the body of Christ did not make it known to you plainly the truth. God will say to you, if you don't come around, I told you, and when I told you in one of my least, I told you, and you did not listen. God help you.<br><br><br><br>

Hi--<br>I've read all the posts on this thread and want to understand the following statement you made in one of them: <br><br>"Even though you may not understand this, let me share it with you, that I have found in my spiritual walk, that in my life in Christ, if I were to have this system set up in me seperate from where my free-will in agreement with God's will was so degraded under calvinism, one-wayness, I would not have a communion with God in relationship building, and would likely walk away in time because I would be constantly told under such a system that it was never my choice to begin with, with little or no give and take balance."<br><br>The part I want you to explain is what you mean by "with little or no give and take balance." What exactly is out of balance that we need to bargain with God over in order to have balance restored? It's such points in your writing that catch my eye most. Otherwise, I understand where you're coming from very well, and also probably where you're headed if the thread continues the way it has been so far.<br><br>Don't misunderstand me, please. I just want to understand the statement you made about balance. But I will add that it's my less than 5% Calvinistic guess, (and I'll add, *reformed* Arminian- will I get more percentage points or less for that?) that pretty soon you'll be removed from the Forum because you are ignoring its purpose altogether, even though you agreed to enjoin it when you subscribed. I have to gather then that deceit is part of the lifestyle you are willing to employ to have a voice here. Wouldn't this mean, according to your belief system, that since you're in the Arminian's God image altogether that your deceit had its nascence in that God?<br><br>If you can just answer my first question then you can feel freewill to ignore the last one.<br><br>Thanks-<br>Cecil<br><br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Now the real kicker where you admit your sick cult when you say "God created some men for glory and some for damnation; both for HIS own glory". I think what is really sick about this claim is that you call preselecting men for damnation as "His own glory". Men going to hell is not glory,</font><hr></blockquote><p>I'm sorry you aren't familiar with the Bible more than you are. You should really try to read it more often and perhaps God will open your mind and heart to receive it unto salvation.<blockquote>Romans 9:13-24 (ASV) "Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth. So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will? <span style="background-color:yellow;">Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?</span> Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? [color:red]Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor?</font color=red> What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction: and [color:blue]that he might make known the riches of his glory</font color=blue> upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory, [even] us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles?</blockquote>I know, I know..... the truth hurts, doesn't it. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,

Hello "Waronthesaints",<br><br> It seems you keep refering to Genesis in talking about us being created in God's image and how that gives us free will. Lets see what the scripture says there.<br><br>First God created man in His own image: <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Gen 1:26-27 "26 Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>The Hebrew word here for image is 'selem'. It literally translates "statue; image; copy." It is used here in Genesis 1 not to convey that God created man in the exact physical image of God, for we know that God is a spirit, but rather it implies that man was created with God's nature.<br><br>We now move to Genesis 5:1-3 (post fall) <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]"This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man in the day when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth."</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>This same word 'selem' is used in verse 3. A distinction is made here from verse 1, where they are in God's image, and verse 3, where Adam's son is in his image (again, not just meaning physical, but rather his nature...being a sinful one now). So with a sinful nature, man cannot equally choose God over sin.<br><br>So yes we bear the image of God, but that image has been marred by the consequences of imputed sin. We have 'free will' in the sense that we can act as free agents, but our ability to choose is limited by our nature. Thus God is not harsh in His soveriegnity, but rather very merciful that He chooses to regenerate any of us at all.<br><br>In Him,<br>Chris<br>

Waronthesaints is clearly at war on the saints - an enemy of The Gospel.<br><br>howard