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You Might Want To Stand #50049
Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:45 PM
Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:45 PM
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PeoplesRepublikofOregon
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video

Last edited by chestnutmare; Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:14 PM. Reason: Inappropriate

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50051
Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:41 AM
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I love the inyourface DONT TREAD ON ME defiance and the unabashed patriotism.


Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50052
Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:21 AM
Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: Hitch
I love the inyourface DONT TREAD ON ME defiance and the unabashed patriotism.

1) Would I be correct in taking your remark as being sarcasm? IF true, is that really necessary because the unanimous decision of the Staff here didn't care for the way this group shows little respect for the national anthem and that God's name is co-mingled with a form of music which it finds dishonoring to Him but which you found moving?

2) I think your "inyourface [in your face]" comment unsubstantiated and simply reactionary because someone questions your taste in music style. From YOUR in your face response methinks it is obvious that what this is really about is "DO NOT speak negatively about my 'tunes'". scratchchin

3) As an aside, in my personal opinion what this country is lacking most, but certainly of less importance than its unabashed rejection of the one true God, is a "Don't Tread on Me" defiance and unabashed patriotism against the majority of politicans which are violating the freedoms and rights guaranteed to this country's citizens found in the U.S. Constitution. You may definitely include me as one who is an "unabashed Patriot".

Is this a deal breaker for you? If so, then #2 above certainly rings true, does it not? Why the angst on your part? shrug


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Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Pilgrim] #50053
Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:52 AM
Sun Sep 15, 2013 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Pilgrim
Originally Posted By: Hitch
I love the inyourface DONT TREAD ON ME defiance and the unabashed patriotism.

1) Would I be correct in taking your remark as being sarcasm?
You would not in fact you are even less 'correct' than your original censorship
Quote:
IF true, is that really necessary because the unanimous decision of the Staff here didn't care for the way this group shows little respect for the national anthem
I doubt you could be more mistaken.
Quote:
and that God's name is co-mingled with a form of music which it finds dishonoring to Him but which you found moving?

2) I think your "inyourface [in your face]" comment unsubstantiated
see above
Quote:
and simply reactionary because someone questions your taste in music style. From YOUR in your face response methinks it is obvious that what this is really about is "DO NOT speak negatively about my 'tunes'". scratchchin
Maybe you should give up the 5 cent psychoanalysis, at that rate you're over priced. NOTE Pilgrim I had already used the inyourface comment elsewhere prior to your censoring attempt.
Quote:


3) As an aside, in my personal opinion what this country is lacking most, but certainly of less importance than its unabashed rejection of the one true God, is a "Don't Tread on Me" defiance and unabashed patriotism against the majority of politicans which are violating the freedoms and rights
Well it was you and Chestnut who originally decided for censorship, not 'the majority of politicians'.
Quote:
guaranteed to this country's citizens found in the U.S. Constitution. You may definitely include me as one who is an "unabashed Patriot".

Is this a deal breaker for you? If so, then #2 above certainly rings true, does it not? Why the angst on your part? shrug
Whats true here is that you and Chest made a bad mistake ,why not just own it and can the self righteous nonsense?

Im glad that at least you have come to the conclusion that the membership of The Highway is capable of making their individual decisions as regards this version .

I think you owe an explanation of this group shows little respect for the national anthem perhaps you will grace us all by pointing it out and maybe you could even explain why everyone else I know missed it.

Ya know,,, I was glad to see the post back up. I was fully prepared to mark The Highway as the first and only net forum I've been involved with to censor the National Anthem , now the onus is yours to demonstrate what is 'real bad' and/or disrespectful in this version, I missed it completely.

The lyrics,so far as I know are taken directly from script with the added lines below; ( I had to look them up, the hearing is not what it used to be)


Because we are the brave
Yes we are the brave
We’ll fight tyranny
In the name of the free
We are the U.S. of A

For those unaware
That flag is still there
It’s our future to save
This land of the brave
The U.S. of A



Disrespectful? Misused? Me thinks pigs are aloft in New England.


Here is a live version,perhaps you can find that disrespect in this one;



In case anyone is wondering, I have no connection to this group other than a profound respect and love of the United States and her Armed Service personel

Last edited by chestnutmare; Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:15 PM. Reason: inappropriate

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50054
Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:55 PM
Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:55 PM
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PeoplesRepublikofOregon
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"IF true, is that really necessary because the unanimous decision of the Staff here didn't care for the way this group shows little respect for the national anthem and that God's name is co-mingled with a form of music which it finds dishonoring to Him but which you found moving?"


But how well they fooled this Marine is really something.






http://www.grunt.com/corps/scuttlebutt/marine-corps-stories/madison-rising/


SARCASM alert Pilgrim.


Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: extremely disappointed [Re: Hitch] #50055
Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:48 PM
Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:48 PM
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Quote:
simply reactionary because someone questions your taste in music style



Interesting Pilgrim. The comment from you and Chestnut was that this version was 'real bad' . Meaning disrespectful or misappropriated , as your own number one attests, having nothing at all to do with 'taste in music style'. Your implication is as unfounded as it is dishonest. The call is up , its time you supported the claim you made in the name of Christ Pilgrim.


I mean What do Marines know about Patriotism and respect for the anthem anyway???

Ya know Pilgrim I really do hope you actually know what you're talking about when go on about Reformed doctrines. Judging from this thread I can see you are adept at pretending and speaking as though you have solid information. Is 'nt it true that you knew nothing of these peoples work before you spoke up ,in public, so negatively? But I'll be making good use of my salt shaker from here out. You're about half as tall as you were two days ago in my book.


But we still need you, these Marines have obviously been duped ( along with FOX News and a host of others)and it is your Christian duty to tell them the real truth Pilgrim. Tell them they have been deceived by
Quote:
this group(that) shows little respect for the national anthem.




Last edited by chestnutmare; Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:17 PM. Reason: inappropriate

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50062
Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:53 PM
Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:53 PM
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It is unscriptural, unchristian and unkind to publicly disparage any one with out good cause. Since
it is reported that
Quote:
the unanimous decision of the Staff here didn't care for the way this group shows little respect for the national anthem
I call on the Staff including Chestnut and Pilgrim to show their good cause for this position.

I have presented several different video versions, all of which I believe point to the contrary and show these young men doing good service, however if the Staff's position is correct those same videos should contain plenty of fodder to show your good cause. I call on you to make public your good cause from these or any other sources just as in Pilgrim's post you made public your complaint. . Christians and especially christian leadership should be first in line to object to unsupported public disparagement.

Originally the discision was made to remove the post. I agree that misusing, disrespecting and even poorly presenting our national anthem would be good cause for removing a post that did so. I was more than surprised to learn that any Satff member here would think that I would post a 'real bad' disrespectful version of the Star Spangled Banner, I still am.

In the mean I hope most of you enjoy it,I think its great and thats why I brought it in the fist place.

Last edited by Hitch; Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:03 PM.

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50063
Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:05 PM
Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:05 PM
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Hitch, you might take some time to examine your own heart in this. It has been you who has been most uncharitable and disrespectful here on the board because you are not getting your own way. You have been contentious and rude over our not wanting a rock n' roll interpretation of the national anthem promoted here on The Highway. Sorry, but it is you who needs to take a step back and consider your heart, prayerfully before the Lord. Is this music more important to you than how you treat others here? What does that say about your priorities?

I don't know much about you Hitch, many years ago, we experienced other rock versions of the anthem by a young rock star called Jimmy Hendrix. He was the hero of a drug infested, godless culture that was anti-authoritarian. His music was the fruit of his own depraved mind. It represented something that many of us who lived through that time, have had to repent of. NO, I am not impressed by that "musical" presentation that you shared. I could get into many different reasons but will refrain for they are the least of our problems here. Your attitude is a chief concern.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: chestnutmare] #50064
Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:08 PM
Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: chestnutmare
Hitch, you might take some time to examine your own heart in this. It has been you who has been most uncharitable and disrespectful here on the board because you are not getting your own way. You have been contentious and rude over our not wanting a rock n' roll interpretation of the national anthem promoted here on The Highway. ***
This is patently false Chestnut, my complaint is clear and repeated, my complaint is that you claimed this version was 'real bad' and and disrespectful to the national anthem and did so offering NO support for your claim. If you cant understand that read it over again . See # 50062
Quote:
Sorry, but it is you who needs to take a step back and consider your heart, prayerfully before the Lord. Is this music more important to you than how you treat others here?
It is a deception on your part to pretend this has to with music being more important or Hitch not getting his own way,it is all about you making unsubstantiated claims ,refusing to support your charge and defaming decent young men and using a 'Christian ' forum to do so. You should be ashamed at that and this deception . [/quote] What does that say about your priorities? [/quote] I made no demand that you replace the post I complied with your request for explanation, that is far from your characterization above, and you did replace the post which flies in the face of me 'not getting my way' .
Quote:


I don't know much about you Hitch, many years ago, we experienced other rock versions of the anthem by a young rock star called Jimmy Hendrix. He was the hero of a drug infested, godless culture that was anti-authoritarian. His music was the fruit of his own depraved mind. It represented something that many of us who lived through that time, have had to repent of. NO, I am not impressed by that "musical" presentation that you shared. I could get into many different reasons but will refrain for they are the least of our problems here. Your attitude is a chief concern. Adopt christian ethics and see my attitude brighten
A christian forum is no place for the Staff or any one else to make unsupported disparaging claims against any one. That is my complaint. that has been my complaint .That will be my complaint , until you take the proper steps to make it right.
I dont care about your past and I dont care whether you like this version ,I've been perfectly clear about my concern on this matter. Your strawmen cant stand up any better than Pilgrim's #2 could. smile
Had I witnessed you or Pilgrim being disparaged at a self proclaimed christian forum I would have done just the same thing--Demanded the speaker prove or at least support his claim or back off, that door swings both ways.


*** Chestnut had asked me to explain why I wanted to make the original post, the reader can decide if this is the rant of one insisting on his 'own way', my response below;
Quote:

It was posted because I enjoyed it and found it profoundly stirring.

The response , has been 100% positive and usually very enthusiastic, with the sole exception of The Highway.

Im sorry you think the membership of The Highway is so fragile,I dont.

This is a different video, same audio;



Would you mind telling me exactly what is ' really bad' about this? I can understand some God hating ' Amerika last' type saying that but I need an explanation for your comment.



You can learn a little of the bands history here;



http://www.madisonrising.com/

Note ; All involved have so far declined to offer any explanation as to why this version is 'really bad' and disrepectful despite my consistent and repeated requests from the outset, in bold above.

Last edited by chestnutmare; Sat Sep 28, 2013 1:15 PM. Reason: inappropriate

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50065
Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:40 PM
Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:40 PM
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Im all for airing this out and I wont let you pretend this has anything to do with who likes what music and shame on you if you persist with that drivel.

Its simple, answer my original request ,that you solicited, repeated below;

Would you mind telling me exactly what is ' really bad' about this? I can understand some God hating ' Amerika last' type saying that but I need an explanation for your comment.

'Really bad' as used by Chestnut is defined in Pilgrims post as
Quote:
the way this group shows little respect for the national anthem
My ire was raised when this comment was made public with out support, that is unethical. Hence my complaint. Nothing at all to do with who likes what music as both Chestnut and Pilgrim have tried to paint it for reasons unknown to me.


I cant see how this request is out of line, but then the same Staff re-posted the original even though to them it is disrepectful of the national anthem,go figure... something is not adding up here.

Last edited by Hitch; Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:43 PM.

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50067
Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:16 AM
Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:16 AM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
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Hitch

I don't want to wade too deep into this conversation. However, I think the main issue is whether or not rock music should ever be used in this context.
If rock music is "depraved music" rather than music that is neutral, or a matter of taste then Pilgrim and Chestnut are correct on their stand.
If rock music is indeed "depraved music", then the motives of individuals themselves makes absolutely no difference at all. Ignorance, doesn't negate truth.

I know solid Christians on both sides of the fence on this particular issue.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:21 AM.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Tom] #50068
Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:55 AM
Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tom
Hitch

I don't want to wade too deep into this conversation. However, I think the main issue is whether or not rock music should ever be used in this context.
I've thought a lot about Pilgrims comment in this regard ---getting far closer to the base I reckon fire is a good example. It can kill it can cook dinner it can be a weapon it can be the result of an accident it can even be recreational-there is no evil in fire itself. The same applies to a banjo a cello and even to a guitar.
Quote:

If rock music is "depraved music" rather than music that is neutral, or a matter of taste then Pilgrim and Chestnut are correct on their stand.
If rock music is indeed "depraved music", then the motives of individuals themselves makes absolutely no difference at all. Ignorance, doesn't negate truth.

I know solid Christians on both sides of the fence on this particular issue.

Tom
Thanx for the response Tom.

If The Highway wishes to adopt an outright ban on any music that is, may be, could be, or might be considered 'rock' (country ,pop,folk, classical,traditional, jazz,zydeko,ska,rap,romantic on and on ) it is entirely their own business whether I think its silly or not. I dont see how that could apply here though as they did indeed re-post the video. Though I made no such request.
The Highway does not have any right to publicly disparage any one with out good cause and why Chestnut and Pilgrim have declined to explain what it is they see as 'disrepectful of the national anthem' in these videos is beyond all comprehension and unethical. As is their instance that I've made bones about who likes what music, clearly a dodge but I cant imagine any reason for it.

Why not just give a reasonable answer?




I think it is because they simply cant find anything and have arrived at an ethical quandary .It is possible they they have gotten used to this forum being so small and the public aspect of it slipped their mind. As you say if they are correct and Madison is guilty of disrespect Pilgrim and Chestnut have a real christian duty to inform the Marines and any one else who has or might be inclined to use this music thinking it is fine. Something tells me they will not.


Take care

H

Last edited by Hitch; Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:18 AM.

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50069
Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:56 AM
Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:56 AM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Originally Posted By: Hitch
I think it is because they simply cant find anything and have arrived at an ethical quandary .It is possible they they have gotten used to this forum being so small and the public aspect of it slipped their mind. As you say if they are correct and Madison is guilty of disrespect Pilgrim and Chestnut have a real christian duty to inform the Marines and any one else who has or might be inclined to use this music thinking it is fine. Something tells me they will not.


Take care

H

There is no quandary whatsoever. I for one stated my objection to the video quite clearly to which you took offense, perhaps even more than the offense I found with the video.

1. The music played is ROCK & ROLL, or call it what you like if not R&R, but the incontrovertible fact is that the music played is WORLDLY which is co-mingled with the name of God which is in the lyrics. That is my main objection whether you accept that or not, which obviously you do not. The secondary objection is that the same rejectionable music is used for the National Anthem, aka: The Star Spangled Banner, written by Francis Scott Key. The historical context of the original writing of this song is hardly represented by this type of music and I personally find it dishonoring.

2. If 50 million Marines like it, it doesn't make it any less offensive, disrespectful to the song and unquestionably, no less a violation of the Third Commandment.

3. My basis for the offense and rejection of this video, and and all similar attempts to co-mingle the world's debauchery with that which is honorable and good is biblically based and which teaching I have often written on this Board. So, it should come as no surprise to you and you would be remiss for dismissing it as a valid and/or sincere reason for my objection. Perhaps you are also "moved" with much appreciation for Shai Linne's co-mingling his devilish "hip-hop/rap" music with the Westminster Shorter Catechism? Some very notable pastors think this is god-honoring and a boon to evangelism, etc. So that must mean that what he is doing is unassailable also?

4. However, what is no less pressing at this point is your unbridled contentiousness, misrepresentation of what has been written by those who oppose the video, and disrespect here. It has been asked that you step back and examine yourself in regard to your belligerent attitude. One can plainly see from looking at the number of replies you have in this thread compared to all others combined and it is obvious you are out of control of your emotions and have shown little objectivity in dealing with the subject. Regardless where you stand on the music issue, I will not tolerate this type of behavior here from you nor anyone else. You have been around here for many years and know the Guidelines and seen how those who have chosen to ignore them have been dealt with for the benefit of the community. We/I make no exceptions. What is right, is right and I make no apologies for it.

Thus, the proverbial "ball" is in your court. You may retain your view but you will NOT be allowed to retain the insulting, misrepresentation, flaming, badgering, etc. when addressing others here. I assume this is clear enough for you! scold


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Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Pilgrim] #50070
Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:20 PM
Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pilgrim
Originally Posted By: Hitch
I think it is because they simply cant find anything and have arrived at an ethical quandary .It is possible they they have gotten used to this forum being so small and the public aspect of it slipped their mind. As you say if they are correct and Madison is guilty of disrespect Pilgrim and Chestnut have a real christian duty to inform the Marines and any one else who has or might be inclined to use this music thinking it is fine. Something tells me they will not.


Take care

H

There is no quandary whatsoever. I for one stated my objection to the video quite clearly to which you took offense, perhaps even more than the offense I found with the video.
You were clear in saying you though it disrepectful of the national anthem. You were not clear in stating why and how it was so .Thats is all I asked for and the evidence is clear I could not understand your position and neither could Tom, gee Pilgrim thats 100% of the non Staff membership that responded on this thread.
Quote:


1. The music played is ROCK & ROLL, or call it what you like if not R&R, but the incontrovertible fact is that the music played is WORLDLY which is co-mingled with the name of God which is in the lyrics. That is my main objection whether you accept that or not, which obviously you do not. The secondary objection is that the same rejectionable music is used for the National Anthem, aka: The Star Spangled Banner, written by Francis Scott Key. The historical context of the original writing of this song is hardly represented by this type of music and I personally find it dishonoring.
well you already know how ridiculous this notion is so theres no point in going over that again. What is worth going over is still the same,from before the post was even put back up I had requested an explanation. None cane until now.
Quote:


2. If 50 million Marines like it, it doesn't make it any less offensive, disrespectful to the song and unquestionably, no less a violation of the Third Commandment.
now we can measure your ego.
Quote:


3. My basis for the offense and rejection of this video, and and all similar attempts to co-mingle the world's debauchery with that which is honorable and good is biblically based and which teaching I have often written on this Board.
Good for you I've never seen it
Quote:
So, it come as no surprise to you and you would be remiss for dismissing it as a valid and/or sincere reason for my objection.
Pilgrim you're really bad at guessing what other folks know and believe ,give it up. It came as a complete surprise to me I had no idea you carried any such objection
Quote:
Perhaps you are also "moved" with much appreciation for Shai Linne's co-mingling his devilish "hip-hop/rap" music with the Westminster Shorter Catechism? Some very notable pastors think this is god-honoring and a boon to evangelism, etc. So that must mean that what he is doing is unassailable also?
Ho hum never heard of him but thanks for showing once again your disgusting side, I guess you cant help it.
Quote:


4. However, what is no less pressing at this point is your unbridled contentiousness, misrepresentation of what has been written by those who oppose the video, and disrespect here.
I 've been clear my objection was and is and shall be you public disparegament of these young men with out showing cause. You are free to pretend other wise all you want but you and I both know the truth of the matter.
Quote:
It has been asked that you step back and examine yourself in regard to your belligerent attitude. One can plainly see from looking at the number of replies you have in this thread compared to all others combined and it is obvious you are out of control of your emotions and have shown little objectivity in dealing with the subject.
Really ? I thought I did pretty well in not addressing the snide ,belittling aspects of your first post. You have quite a talent for carefully worded insults and innuendos. No Pilgrim I dint miss them I just over looked them
Quote:
Regardless where you stand on the music issue, I will not tolerate this type of behavior here from you nor anyone else. You have been around here for many years and know the Guidelines and seen how those who have chosen to ignore them have been dealt with for the benefit of the community. We/I make no exceptions. What is right, is right and I make no apologies for it.
You make exception for yourself, see #2 your first post this thread.
Quote:


Thus, the proverbial "ball" is in your court. You may retain your view but you will NOT be allowed to retain the insulting, misrepresentation, flaming, badgering, etc. when addressing others here. I assume this is clear enough for you! scold
Like I said Pilgrim Im no match for your ability at subtle insult and innuendo, it just doesnt suit me.



All of this trash could have been avoided with a simple explanation as was requested from before the first post .. And I;ll stand to say once again ;It was deceptive on the part of The Highway to say,imply or intone that any of this had anything to do with tastes in music at all. Completely wrong completely out of line and completely cynical.


I will also repeat that I would never post any version of the Star Spangled Banner that I believed to be any thing but true to the patriotism and fear of God of the original, sadly that is not true of The Highway.


Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Pilgrim] #50071
Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:28 PM
Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:28 PM
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PeoplesRepublikofOregon
Hitch Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Pilgrim
Originally Posted By: Hitch
I love the inyourface DONT TREAD ON ME defiance and the unabashed patriotism.

1) Would I be correct in taking your remark as being sarcasm? IF true, is that really necessary because the unanimous decision of the Staff here didn't care for the way this group shows little respect for the national anthem and that God's name is co-mingled with a form of music which it finds dishonoring to Him but which you found moving?

2) I think your "inyourface [in your face]" comment unsubstantiated and simply reactionary because someone questions your taste in music style. From YOUR in your face response methinks it is obvious that what this is really about is "DO NOT speak negatively about my 'tunes'". scratchchin
I answered this earlier while guessing at what you mean here. It looks like something a druggie would put up I dont get it at all, if you can spare the time would you mind explaining what you meant? I mean beside the insulting nature I got that part. Funny though how what is obvious to you doesnt even exist in reality
Quote:


3) As an aside, in my personal opinion what this country is lacking most, but certainly of less importance than its unabashed rejection of the one true God, is a "Don't Tread on Me" defiance and unabashed patriotism against the majority of politicans which are violating the freedoms and rights guaranteed to this country's citizens found in the U.S. Constitution. You may definitely include me as one who is an "unabashed Patriot".

Is this a deal breaker for you? If so, then #2 above certainly rings true, does it not? Why the angst on your part? shrug
What are you talking about ? Breaking what deal? And what angst are you blathering about ? At this point I had posted one line so I have no idea what you're getting at . An explanation would help.

Last edited by Hitch; Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:41 PM.

Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50072
Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:30 PM
Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:30 PM
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PeoplesRepublikofOregon
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Wow I planned to post a nice patriotic tune and I've been treated like some criminal. Amazing.


Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50073
Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:21 PM
Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:21 PM
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PeoplesRepublikofOregon
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Hmmm no 'likes' but then not a single complaint and over 100 views.:)


Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50086
Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:55 PM
Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:55 PM
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PeoplesRepublikofOregon
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Originally Posted By: Hitch
I love the inyourface DONT TREAD ON ME defiance and the unabashed patriotism.
I hope you'e enjoyed this rousing rendition as much as I have.


Marxism is the opiate of the academy.
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50094
Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:19 AM
Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:19 AM
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Annie Oakley
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Love Not the World

Do you profess to be a Christian? Then love not the world!
You say, being a Christian doesn't call us to change our affections? Love not the world! Examine yourselves in light of the Scriptures and see if there is any way in you that you have need of renouncing. Repent therefore, and love not the world.

1 John 2:15-16 (ASV) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the vain glory of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50095
Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:20 AM
Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:20 AM
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chestnutmare Offline
Annie Oakley
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"Love not. He had said before that the only rule for living religiously, is to love God; but as, when we are occupied with the vain love of the world, we turn away all our thoughts and affections another way, this vanity must first be torn away from us, in order that the love of God may reign within us. Until our minds are cleansed, the former doctrine may be iterated a hundred times, but with no effect: it would be like pouring water on a ball; you can gather, no, not a drop, because there is no empty place to retain water.

By the world understand everything connected with the present life, apart from the kingdom of God and the hope of eternal life. So he includes in it corruptions of every kind, and the abyss of all evils. In the world are pleasures, delights, and all those allurements by which man is captivated, so as to withdraw himself from God.

Moreover, the love of the world is thus severely condemned, because we must necessarily forget God and ourselves when we regard nothing so much as the earth; and when a corrupt lust of this kind rules in man, and so holds him entangled that he thinks not of the heavenly life, he is possessed by a beastly stupidity.

If any man love the world. He proves by an argument from what is contrary, how necessary it is to cast away the love of the world, if we wish to please God; and this he afterwards confirms by an argument drawn from what is inconsistent; for what belongs to the world is wholly at variance with God. We must bear in mind what I have already said, that a corrupt mode of life is here mentioned, which has nothing in common with the kingdom of God, that is, when men become so degenerated, that they are satisfied with the present life, and think no more of immortal life than mute animals. Whosoever, then, makes himself thus a slave to earthly lusts, cannot be of God." John Calvin - Commentaries on The First Epistle of John


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50096
Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:23 AM
Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:23 AM
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chestnutmare Offline
Annie Oakley
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"It is useless to urge those who are still of the world not to love the world. We can never hope to pluck figs from thistles or grapes from thorns. Only when people have overcome the wicked one, know the Father, know the son, have the remission of sins, can we admonish them as John does here.

John uses [Grk. agapan], the love that indicates direction of the will and intelligent, purposeful choice, and not love [Grk. filia] which is used to denote natural, friendly affection. John might have used the latter. James 4:4 reads "The friendship [Grk. filia] friendly affection) for the world is enmity against God; whoever then intends to be a friend [Grk. filos] of the world establishes himself an enemy of God." What James inserts by means of the "intends to be" lies in the verb that John uses, namely intention, purpose, choice, will.

World [Grk. kosmos] (originally: ornament, order) has a variety of meanings in the New Testament: the universe, the earth, the whole human race, the ungodly that are far from God, finally, in the ethical sense, all that is opposed to Christ on earth. John refers to this last, not to the world as God made it but as the wicked one corrupted all that is in it so that it now lies in the wicked one (5:19), is ruled by him as the prince of the world, as a kingdom that is opposed to the Father and the kingdom in which Christ rules with grace. As children of God we have been delivered from the world in this sense, have conquered the wicked one; the world, in the sense of corrupt, ungodly men, hates us, knowing that we do not belong to their number, John 15:18, 19. Luther: "To be in the world, to see the world, to feel the world, is a different thing from loving the world; just as to have and to feel sin is a different thing from loving sin." John might have used the decisive aorist imperative which is used in so many New Testament admonitions. He uses the present imperative which forbids a course of action. This matches the idea of the verb, for loving is continuous.

"Nor the things of the world" points to the individual deceptive treasures, pleasures, honors of the world, its wealth, its power, its wisdom, etc. We are not forbidden to admire, appreciate, use aright the natural things of this earth such as relative, friends, fatherland, the beauties and the grandeur of nature, home, occupation, and the thousands of useful, attractive, valuable things which God has put all around us. But whatever in is connection, tendency, and influence is hostile to God, to Christ, and to his kingdom, however alluring or attractive it may otherwise appear, is 'a thing of the world,' to which we must be hostile since we belong to God, to Christ, and to his kingdom."—R.C.H. Lenski


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50097
Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:24 AM
Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:24 AM
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chestnutmare Offline
Annie Oakley
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"As a deeply concerned pastor, John includes warnings as well as encouragements in his letter. Here he warns his 'little children' not to love 'the world'. In his Gospel, John tells us that God 'so loved the world…' Jn 3:15. There 'the world' stands for fallen sinful humanity, a world that God amazingly loves and that Christians, as God's children, should also love.

Here 'the world' has a darker, more sinister meaning. It stands for an organized system that hates and openly defies God and his Son (see John 15:18-25). John actually defines what he means by 'the world' in verses 16-17. The world that Christians are not to love is the world where 'the desires of the flesh', 'the desires of the eyes', and 'pride in possessions' dominate the horizons of life and define the shape of life. This world Christians are to avoid, resist and reject (see also 2Tim 2:22). John is not advocating monastic withdrawal from the world. God's people are always to be salt and light in the world (see Matt 5:13-16). What Christians are to avoid is sharing in the sinful, God-dishonouring ambitions, desires and activities of this fallen world.

John's warning to his 'little children' is very solemn: 'If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.' Pastors who love their congregations will speak pointedly when the occasion demands it. One of the marks of a Christian is that he or she has come to perceive the shallow and sinful attractions of the world for what they are, attractions that are 'passing away' (v. 17). The new eyes that enable us to see in Jesus the grace of God, also enable us to see in the world the snares of the devil. It is more than possible that lying behind these verses, John has the opening verses of Genesis 3 in mind. There, God's man and woman were seduced by the very things John highlights here. Consider these three marks of a world that is even now 'passing away":—Ian Hamilton


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Re: You Might Want To Stand [Re: Hitch] #50098
Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:48 AM
Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:48 AM
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Annie Oakley
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"First, there are 'the desires of the flesh'. The world John is commanding us not to love is the world where selfish craving is pursued and praised. John is not condemning pleasure; he is condemning a system that makes 'my pleasure' and not God's glory the chief pursuit of life. This was precisely Eve's downfall. She put her own desire above God's revealed will. The point is not that our bodies are evil or that sex is bad, because God gave us our bodies, made us sexual beings, and 'richly provides us with everything to enjoy' (1Tim 5:17). But when we make God's good gifts ends in themselves, we make our pleasure and satisfaction the goal of existence. In short, we make pleasure our God (2Tim 3:4). This is the world depicted in the TV 'Soaps', in teenage, and so-called 'adult' magazines. It is a world where God, his son and eternity are dismissed, and selfish desire is king. The reality, and tragedy, of course, is that when God, his Son and eternity are ignored selfish gratification leaves people unsatisfied and aching for more (Eccles 3:11). We are spiritual creatures and only the living God can satisfy our longing for life.

Second, there is 'the desires of the eyes.' John probably has in mind here our native fallen tendency to be beguiled by appearances: 'It looks good; it must therefore be good.' We live in a superficial age, an age where outward appearance and presentation matter more than substance. This was part of Adam and Eve's downfall too. God had forbidden them to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:17). But when 'the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes…she took of its fruit…' Gen 3:6. The world of advertising in particular is geared to seduce us through images that bypass our minds and beguile our eyes. John warns us to beware of this seduction. All that glitters is not gold!

Third, there is 'pride in possessions.' The world Christians are not to love is the world that makes a man's life to 'consist in the abundance of his possessions' Lk 12:15, that says 'I am what I am, not by the grace of God, but by my own achievements, and here they are.' Jesus himself counsels us not to 'lay up treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal' but to lay up 'treasure in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also' Mt 5:19-21

It is possible that John is also thinking here of Gen 3. The word translated 'possessions,' can be translated 'life' (as in the AV). In the Garden, Eve saw 'that the tree was to be desired to make one wise' Gen 3:6. She was reaching out in her pride to take possession of what she thought would enrich her life. But what she thought would make her 'wise' brought her death.

Satan never wearies of tempting us to believe that life can be found outside God''s will and ways. It is little wonder that our Lord Jesus calls him 'a liar and the father of lies' and John describes him as 'the deceiver of the whole world' Rev 12:9. Satan was bold enough to try and tempt our Lord himself with these very temptations Mt 4:1-11, but to no avail.

One of sin's 'fingerprints' is its consuming passion to praise self. How rarely do we hear the greatly gifted acknowledging that every ability they possess is the gift of God's grace. Paul needed to ask the Christians in Corinth, 'What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it? 1Cor 4:7. If self-praise is a mark of a fallen, God-denying world, it is a sin that needs constantly to be put do death in everyone who professes to belong to Jesus Christ Rom 8:13.

John is not content merely to tell us not to love the world; he gives us three compelling reasons why we should not love the world.

First, 'If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him' v 15. You cannot, whatever you may think, love God and the world at the same time Mt 5:24; James 4:4. The fundamental issue has to do with the first commandment Ex 20:3. God will brook no rivals, and especially rivals that deny and despise him. A man who truly loves his wife does not enjoy the company and promote the interests of anyone who despises her and treats her with contempt. Perhaps it would be good to pause here and ask yourself this question: 'Is God's love truly in me?' If it is, you will not love the world.

Second, 'The world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever." Robert Burns, in his poem Tam O'Shanter, captured precisely what John meant in the first part of verse 17:

But pleasures are like poppies spread,
You seize the flow'r, its bloom is shed;
Or like the snow falls in the river,
A moment white, then melts for ever.

It is the essence of folly to love what is in the process of 'passing away' and heading for eternal oblivion.

Fading is the worldling's pleasure,
All his boasted pomp and show.
Solid joys and lasting treasures
Non but Zion's children know.

John Newton,
Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken

Third 'but whoever does the will of God abides forever.' More positively, John highlights the glorious future that lies before 'whoever' makes God's will and not the world's ways the object of their desire. To abide forever, is to live in unending communion with God in the glory of his nearer presence Jn 17:3.

Once again God's Word confronts us with two ways to live. There is a broad way, apparently spacious and inviting, but that leads to destruction. And there is a narrow way, apparently hard and uninviting, but that leads to life Ps 1; Mt 7:13-14. John is warning his readers to choose the narrow way that leads to life."—Ian Hamilton, 'Let's Study: The Letters of John'


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
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