The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Mark of the Beast......?

"And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not oworship the image of the beast to be slain. Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, rthe name of the beast or sthe number of its name. This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number uof a man, and his number is 666."

What exactly is it?

Herman Hoeksema in his book Behold He Cometh has a good section on this text, Rev. 13:11-18. I think he possibly has grasped the meaning of the two beasts, of which you seem to be wanting to know about the second beast. In summary, he posits that the first beast is a world power politic rather than a single individual. The second beast is inextricably tied to the first and is the propaganda spread by a false prophet who does the bidding of the first beast, again the emphasis is upon the message vs. the messenger. His responsibility is to get people to submit to the authority and doctrine, both political and religious of the first through subtlety and guile and even to worship the person and philosophy of the first beast (pp. 465-476).

Yes, I am aware that the Postmil Puritans interpreted the "beast" as the pope and Rome. But I have never been able to be swayed to accept that as valid. I think these beasts are much broader in scope.

Oh my, it's happening..... the Pope is a very minor player.... as hes been for almost a century

Pilgrim's summary of Hoeksema is pretty much what I have been taught and believe. The beast is all human government/politics; the false prophet is all false religion (whether or not it falls under the umbrella of "Christianity.")

This would certainly include, but is by no means limited to, Rome/Pope. Remember that these seven parallel visions (or camera angles) given to John must be for all Christians, in all times, from Christ's first coming to His second coming.

But, were you asking specifically about the 'mark' of the beast? While many different explanations have been advanced, the one I prefer is that six is simply the number of man. Seven is the number of completion or perfection, and six falls short. So 777 would be perfect completion, and 666 always falls short. The expression of this which I like best is, "Failure upon failure upon failure."

The forehead represents one's thoughts, and the right hand represents one's deeds, so the mark of the beast may be evident in one's thoughts or actions; one's words or deeds.

Contrast this with the seal received by the saints (Rev.7:3) in their foreheads, but not in their right hands, a metaphor for our salvation being by grace through faith, and not of works.

Hi brother, thanks for the response, actually the part I was most curious about, as I believe what's already posted to be on point, is this....


....so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Thank you for the clarification. Brother, you ask a hard question. Though I have had no instruction on that particular portion of the passage, I did pray about it, and will just put forth a couple thoughts:

There are only two people-groups in view here; believers and unbelievers. A true believer will never bear the mark of the beast, while every one of the reprobate will.

"Buying and selling" does not refer merely to the exchange of goods. Rather, it is a metaphor for functioning in a society. It would include not only commerce, but also employment, transportation, accommodation, services, and so forth. If these things are withheld, one would be unable to function in a society.

So, the picture is one of Christians being persecuted by the world. Throughout the millennium, Christians have always been under persecution somewhere, by either the government, and/or by society. From Christ's first advent to His second advent, every generation has seen the persecution of Christians somewhere in the world.

That is about as far as I can take it. Perhaps others will add more thoughts!

thanks for your insights, very interesting..... I tend to agree with what you are getting at

So do you think we are entering such a time?

Undoubtedly there are places in the world where Christians are under such persecution at this very time. But I suspect that you were asking whether we in North America were heading for such a condition? God knows -- but I don't!

Thanks for starting an interesting topic. After my post, I did some Googling, and after many false starts, I found this page, WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST?? which does a fair job of describing what I was trying to say, though I don't agree with everything he says. In fact, prior to this search, I had never heard of this guy or his organization.

But it is miles above 99% of the stuff turned up by my search, including that on John MacArthur's site.

So, what do you think...

I just noticed that in your last paragraph you said that Postmils Puritans interpreted the "beast" as the pope of Rome."
My understanding is that they believed the pope of Rome was the "anti-Christ", not the "beast".
Can you clarify this?

Tom

Although I may not be the best one to comment when it comes to eschatology and I would need to look into what the link said in more detail to be able to give it a thumbs up. I will say that, I didn't see a lot to disagree with.
That said, I went to that UK Apologetics main site and found out that although they use a lot of Reformed maturial, they definitely believe in "Unlimitted Atonement" as opposed to the Reformed "limitted Atonement".

Tom

My mistake and a silly one at that since I am more than aware that historic postmillennialists believe the pope is the antichrist (I disagree, of course).

I'm tuning in here... Great topic! I just recently departed the Dispy Premil camp and I am so eager to learn about other views and especially Amil, which is looking more and more like the truth to me, the more I learn and read about it.

I tend to side with the Puritans and the saints and martyrs of the Reformation regarding the papacy as one of the beasts of Revelation and the Church of Rome being the great harlot church that has reigned over kings of the earth and described in Revelation chapters 17 and 18.

The location of the mark of the beast is on RIGHT hand and/or FOREHEAD.

In keeping with Romanism, it’s followers are identified by a visible and literal mark ... at baptism, the priest places his RIGHT hand into the baptismal font and with his thumb, places the mark (charagma) upon the FOREHEAD of the infant followers of the beast.

On Ash Wednesdays, the priest dips his RIGHT hand into the wood ashes and places the mark (charagma) upon the FOREHEAD of the adult followers of the beast.

It should be obvious to students of prophecy that the followers of Romanism use their right hand to make their identifying “sign”.

I believe this is how the term “being under the thumb of Rome” came about.

Their leader is “God On Earth”. Their own publications confirm this claim.

In a sense he is also “antichrist”, for the Greek “anti” has two meanings: against or opposed to ... and the second being ... “in place of”.

Their pope is “in the place of Christ”. He is the “Vicar of Christ” ... vicarious being a substitute for.

Within the walls of his kingdom ... Vatican City, all buying and selling is controlled ... it has it’s own currency, post office, security force etc..

I expect (sooner than later) that God will destroy this city and it will be an ever burning witness to the world.

At that time, futurists will be saying how can this be?

“The image, mark and numbered beast were supposed to be revealed prior to it’s destruction”.

Perhaps at that time, they will realize that their watchmen on the wall were asleep or looking in the wrong direction when these things came to pass.
ccc