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janean said:
I forgot to add this too. Another thought as to why I struggle to accept a full predestination beleive, is then what is the point of praying for someone who doesn't beleive. Does it really do anything then, if GOd has determined already who is saved???? This doesn't make sense to me.
Janean,

First of all, we are commanded to pray! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Second, who is there among men who knows the mind of God? What God has predestined; i.e., who He has chosen to salvation in Christ has not been revealed. Thus, knowing that it is God Who sovereignly regenerates the souls of sinners, who better to pray to? Third, prayer is God's ordained means by which much of His will here on earth is initiated and carried out. And in doing so, we are given the privilege of experiencing the mercy and grace of God exhibited to ourselves and to others. It is in answer to prayer that we find our faith strengthened and our worship of God deepened. For we have a Living God Who hears our cries and deals with us personally.

No, prayer doesn't effect the will of God. Or, put in contemporary phraseology, "prayer doesn't change things". For, God from eternity has foreordained all things for His glory and that which He has foreordained is immutable. But again, God has also foreordained the means by which those things are to come to pass and included His children to share in their outworking.

In His Grace,

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simul iustus et peccator

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