Ok more questions from me. Back to Theology 101 for me here. Pilgrim quoted to Michelle about the fall the that after Adam's sin there was the change to all mankind "spiritually (immediate and radical change in his nature)." and "man's disposition, his inclinations were changed". (yes I agree and know we're all born with the sin nature because of Adams sin) and that "man's choices are always determined by his nature". Ok this got me thinking what about Adam and Eve themselves, I thought they to had the sin nature too - doesn't Romans 3:23 apply to them? If there was a radical change in mankind's nature then it didn't exist with Adam and Eve? How do you explain why they sinned then? So Adam had a different nature than the rest of mankind? and quoting BookMark "Adam had free-will" - so only Adam had free-will and not us?? What am I missing here?? Thank you for any clarification here. Again I'm <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif" alt="" />