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Joined: Apr 2001
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Head Honcho
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Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,025 Likes: 274 |
janean and others, This idea that Luther and others borrowed "bar tunes" for their sacred music belongs on the "Snopes" website as an urban myth.  There isn't a shred of truth to this charge, which is used by those who would try and justify nearly any form of music for worship. One of the most informative articles on musicology for the church can be found here: Congregational Singing and the Ministry of the Word. Here is a short section taken from that article which addresses this matter of "bar tunes", etc. As soon as I say this, someone will retort, "But Luther used songs from the bar." This is a regrettable misconception widely popularized in our time. Similarly, some will triumphantly respond with that famous Luther quotation: "Why should the Devil have all the good tunes?" Anyone who has read Luther extensively knows that when Luther spoke of the Devil, he usually meant the papacy. In truth, when Luther asked, "Why should the Devil have all the good tunes?" he did not mean, "Why should the good tunes remain out there in the bar when we could use them in church?" Rather, he meant the Reformation church should not leave all the fine old hymns to the Roman Catholic Church. He was making a passionate plea for the use of traditional music!
As for Luther borrowing tunes from the bar, this is a misunderstanding of both music theory and music history. The "bar form" is a label for a musical/architectural form, not a description of musical activity occurring in a public place of alcoholic consumption. In Luther's time, there were academic societies called Meistersingers.22 They existed for the purpose of composing songs based usually on biblical texts, and the musical form they used was called a "bar form."23 The bar form is like a fixed recipe. It has as much to do with consuming alcoholic beverages in a public place as does "bar oil" for a chain saw, attorneys "passing the bar," or Jewish boys and their "Bar Mitzvahs."
Immediately after the section where the above quote is taken, Dr. Payton discusses the matter of "style". It would definitely be worth everyone's time to read that entire article and then take some time to re-evaluate their relative positions on this matter of music. In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:21 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:37 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:48 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:55 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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MarieP
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:17 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:57 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 16, 2004 11:59 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 16, 2004 4:20 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:49 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:51 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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janean
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:54 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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chestnutmare
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:18 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:28 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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chestnutmare
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:17 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:26 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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chestnutmare
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Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:53 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:30 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:00 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:19 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:34 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:55 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:13 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:30 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:43 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:50 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:20 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:08 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:34 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 12:48 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:21 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:39 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:29 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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gotribe
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:49 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:27 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:45 PM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:41 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Tom
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:31 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:59 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:28 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:01 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:32 PM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:50 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:04 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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Wes
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Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:41 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part I
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gotribe
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Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:02 AM
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Re: Regulative principle & worship - Part II
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:57 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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RefDoc
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:42 AM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:20 AM
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Anonymous
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Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:02 PM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jul 27, 2004 1:23 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jul 27, 2004 2:15 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:43 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:29 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:08 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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William
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:34 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:02 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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William
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:18 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:38 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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William
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:43 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:11 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:11 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:27 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:44 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:32 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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janean
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:30 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:53 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:05 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:28 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:18 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:26 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:58 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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janean
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:59 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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HCRigby
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:43 AM
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:52 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:01 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Ruth
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:32 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:52 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:03 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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janean
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:09 PM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:43 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Gileskirk
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Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:26 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:04 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:10 AM
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Re: Regulative principle
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:19 AM
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