Averagefellar said:
References please? I know you prefer the edicts of Rome against God's word, but on this board, we uphold the primacy of God's word, not tradition that changes with the wind. Now, please support your claim with scripture?
William, I'm sorry, but this "wind" is going to come around and bite you. One would be hard pressed to make the case that Catholic traditions change with the wind. Our traditions go back centuries, many of them all the way back to the New Testament times. But this charge can be laid compellingly against the Protestant Reformation, for Protestant tradition and doctrine has deviated so wildly from those fathers of the Reformation that modern beliefs are almost alien in comparison to founding beliefs. Would you like a few examples?
C.S. Lewis said concerning rituals:
"Those who dislike ritual in general, ritual in any and every department of life, may be asked most earnestly to reconsider the question....The modern habit of doing ceremonial things unceremoniously is no proof of humility; rather it proves the offender's inability to forget himself in the rite, and his readiness to spoil for every one else the proper pleasure of ritual."
John Calvin said, concerning the Eucharist:
"It is a spiritual mystery which cannot be seen by the eye nor comprehended by human understanding. Therefore it is represented for us by means of visible signs, according to the need of our weakness. Nevertheless, it is not a naked figure, but one joined to its truth and substance. With good reason then, the bread is called the body, because it not only represents it, but also presents it."
The pretribulation rapture heresy is also fairly recent and infects nearly all of Protestantism, being introduced by John Nelson Darby, and then widely propagated by C.I. Scofield vie the
Scofield Reference Bible. Don't talk to ME about doctrines that violate scripture! This one is specifically refuted in 2 Thess.
Some other trends are even more recent, such as claiming Christianity is not a religion (it's a relationship), would raise the eyebrows of our grandparents who sang, "Give me that old time religion, it's good enough for me."
Now Lutheran services are far more similar to Catholic ones than in their observance of litergy and tradition. Martin Luther had disagreements with the Catholic Church but he didn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
In fact, "individualist Christianity" such as the "just me and Jesus," mentality goes completely against the corporate nature of the Church in the New Testament and the continued observance of such by the early reformers.
Just what would Ozwald Chambers, or Alexander Campbell think of mainline denominations softening their doctrines on same-sex marriage, or homosexual clergy? Or the growing belief that hell is neither literal or eternal? Catholic Church fathers throughout the ages condemned homosexuality and pederasty and maintained the certainty of eternal punishment for the wicked. Those priests caught in the sex abuse scandals were in violation of Church teaching, but never did we sway in our doctrines.
Most evangelicals don't even bother to read the works of their founders, and even if they did, they would be shocked to hear the beliefs of those founders and how different they are by today's standard.
In fact,
sola scriptura, and the reciprocal implication that the Church has no authority of its own, has sprung over 33,000 denominations, with myriads of doctrines, opinions, and false teachings creeping in everywhere. Because people aren't held to a single standard or body of doctrine, just to the Bible which, they're told, they can interpret privately claiming inspiration from the Holy Spirit, even though Peter strictly warned that we may not.
Protestantism has no walls, no standard, and no authority of its own. Doctrines of demons are pervading everywhere. And oddly enough, this is occuring everywhere except for those religious communities that still adhere to the corporate nature of which Christ designed His Church, such as the Amish.
And so you have no basis for charging us with listless traditions. You may not agree with us, but at least we are consistant. We are built on the Rock, and not on shifting sands, and our Tradition and Sacramental, Apostolic faith has withstood the ages, and will continue to do so.
And I mean no disrespect to the Protestant Reformation, but I am alarmed and saddened by what is happening to those I consider brethren in Christ. And Mother Church stands ready to recieve back anyone what wants the stability of an ancient, stalwart, and unshakeable Church.
Sorry William, you asked for it. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scold.gif" alt="" />
Pax Christi
catholicsoldier <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/takethat.gif" alt="" />
