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#18033
Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:10 AM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274
Head Honcho
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Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274 |
speratus queried: Before I can understand the Reformed objection to the crucifix, I need to understand the Reformed doctrine of the hypostatic union of God the Son and the flesh of Mary. Do Calvinists subscribe to the Athanasian Creed? This is a joke, right?  Calvinism is BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY, so of course we who hold to the doctrines of sovereign grace also embrace the Athanasian Creed as well as the Nicene Creed and Chalcedon, which says: Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
The reason most Calvinists find a "crucifix" objectionable is because: (1) It is in direct violation of the Second Commandment which prohibits the creation of any form of any of the three persons of the Godhead and/or the worship of them or use of them to worship. (2) Christ is risen and now sits at the right hand of God; ruling the earth and His kingdom, having ascended and been coronated King of Kings and Lord of Lords. (3) We are to remember His sacrificial death in the Lord's Supper and not through some fabricated object that is nothing more than the materialization of some man's imagination. speratus also asks: how do Calvinists understand, "not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God"? I think that is quite thoroughly answered in the Chalcedon Creed, but perhaps these Bible passages might make it even clearer for you: John 1:14 (ASV) "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth."
Philippians 2:5-11 (ASV) "Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient [even] unto death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven and [things] on earth and [things] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
1 Timothy 3:16 (ASV) "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."
In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:02 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:22 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Tom
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Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:24 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:47 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Tom
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:00 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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RefDoc
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:18 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:28 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:19 AM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:43 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:28 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:57 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:07 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:58 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:23 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:01 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:13 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:29 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:46 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Tom
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:43 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:52 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:17 AM
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Tom
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:41 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:57 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:14 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:14 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:35 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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janean
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Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:34 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:50 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:05 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:45 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:46 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:10 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:02 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:24 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:04 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:47 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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janean
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:01 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:28 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:30 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:33 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:05 PM
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janean
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:36 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Tom
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:38 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:24 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 8:30 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:45 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:59 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:21 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:04 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:23 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 05, 2004 5:55 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:19 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:43 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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MarieP
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:53 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:25 PM
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:43 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:54 PM
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:10 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:22 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:05 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:07 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Tom
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:43 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:23 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:00 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:59 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:52 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:51 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:10 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:44 PM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:30 AM
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Re: Material Witness..icons and the Incarnation
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:26 AM
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