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#20537
Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
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Soli Deo Gloria said: J Edwards, could you explain how it leads to "embracing baptismal regeneration, and destroying the Perseverance of the saints, etc." Not that i disagree but i definitly do not know how it does. I would suggest reading the books refuting the New Perspective movement as: (1) this is a difficult subject, and (2) it takes a lot of discussing to get anywhere. Briefly, when we come to “justification” Wright contends that it is not the central focus of the Romans, etc. Wright’s asserts that “the works of the law” were not the effort of the Jewish people to earn their salvation. Here Wright accuses many Protestant exegetes as having imported the Augustine-Pelagius debate into their interpretation of Galatians, Romans, etc. He and others contend Paul sets forth the doctrine of justification which demonstrates “the covenant faithfulness of God” and “the identity of His covenant people.” In his theology we have the supplanting of soteriolgy with ecclesiology. However, let us let them speak for themselves: 'Justification' in the first century was not about how someone might establish a relationship with God. It was about God's eschatological definition, both future and present of who was, in fact, a member of his people. In Sanders' terms, it was not so much about 'getting in', or indeed about 'staying in', as about 'how you could tell who was in. In standard Christian theological language, it wasn't so much about soteriology as about ecclesiology; not so much about salvation as about the church. (What Saint Paul Really Said).
What Paul means by justification in this context should therefore be clear. It is not how you become a Christian, so much as how you can tell who is a member of the covenant family." (What Saint Paul Really Said.) Another way of saying this that may be clearer is—“I am right with God because I am in the church.” In this statement, the New Perspective view believes that we enter into a saving relationship with God through entry into the Church. Since baptism is the sacrament of entrance into the church it also becomes the means into all of salvation's blessings. Rich Lusk states: Baptism is the means through which the Spirit unites us to Christ. No other means is said to have this function; it is the peculiar grace attached to baptism... Since baptism is the instrumental means of union with Christ, it is sometimes said to be the instrument of forgiveness and regeneration (Acts 2:38, 22:16; Tit. 3:5). These are the chief blessings of union with Christ; they are offered in baptism and received by faith. In other words, baptism is simply the gospel in aqueous form. (Rich Lusk, "Some Thoughts on the Means of Grace). However, salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone (Eph. 2:8-9). According to WCF XIV.1, baptismal grace does not create faith but strengthens existing faith. From here I am sure you can see that without forensic justification the Perseverance of the Saints in Wright’s exegesis would depend on his ecclesiological argument and thus there is no assurance, et. al. (various sources)
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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NT Wright
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Anonymous
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Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:21 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:38 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Anonymous
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Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:46 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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carlos
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Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:48 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:18 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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onefear
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:41 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:32 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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onefear
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Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:26 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:33 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Adopted
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Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:12 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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onefear
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Sat May 21, 2005 1:17 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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credocovenanter
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:34 AM
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Re: NT Wright
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:13 AM
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Re: NT Wright
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credocovenanter
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Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:20 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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J_Edwards
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Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:00 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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onefear
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:31 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:10 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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onefear
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:44 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:39 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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onefear
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Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:20 AM
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Re: NT Wright
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:38 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:38 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Anonymous
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Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:45 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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J_Edwards
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Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:52 PM
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Re: NT Wright
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Anonymous
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Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:54 AM
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