Pilgrim,

Believe me, my loyalties lie with Reformed. I was never a good Catholic to begin with and am just now learning the ins and outs of Catholic Doctrine - let me tell you your average CAtholic is pretty ignorant on the origins of their belief system.

THe most effective and objective method of researching early Christian thought and beliefs would probably be to read whole writings of the ECF's - although I agree they were not infalliable.

I just don't undertand how an Iraneus in the early 100's can speak of the Lord's Supper in a Real Presence sort of way - that really concerns me - does it you?

Have you ever read the writings of the ECF's? Have you ever read the arguments on the other side of the debate or neutral sources if they exist - I think its only fair that we research the other side to get a more balanced perspective - the sources you gave me are 100% reformed which will just verify what I already know (although I am interested in their takes on Sola Scriptures - I just wished it could have been proven in less than 3 volumes in the case of Webster).

But God did sanction the formation of early churches, right? - I guess we have to give the early church some credit for perserving the written word,

At what point do you believe the early church completelty fell away???

Was it paganism and Constantine - that can't be because we see 'false doctrines' circulating much ealier.

Is it as Hilsop's 'The Two Babylons' suggest a product of Babylonian beliefs and practices infultrating during the Apostolic CHurch.

I for one do feel the Bible is the most trustworthy and perfect source of truth but when a Catholic apologist takes a literal reading of John 6, references from Paul regarding the celebration of the Lord's Supper and throws in a few ECF's it puts our backs against the wall, no?

Last edited by AJC; Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:18 PM.
The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine