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You just ain't getting it, eh? God referred to the nation of Israel as the "people of God" as a conglomerate which was the VISIBLE CHURCH within which were both believers and unbelievers. But by doing so it does not follow that God considered the unbelievers to be His "people".

Okay. Take this idea on home with John 15. Are those branches who are torn out, were they ever at one point abiding in the love of Christ?

Or maybe a better question is, how do you define "abiding in the love of Christ" in John 15?

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Again, notice the CONTEXT of whom he speaks..... "elect infants". He is speaking objectively and not subjectively of every infant who is baptized. ONLY "elect" infants are guaranteed future regeneration and are called to faith, aka: conversion "in God's good time".

I'll forego the fact that you didn't mention that Cornelius says elect infants recieve the Spirit at baptism.

So we have examples of in the scriptures of infants being saved and we have examples of covenant children in the scriptures being reprobate. Both examples are given. Some could end up in the hand of God and some could not.

Another important question is, "What criteria are you using to presume that children are not true members of the church?" Since you have examples of saved infants as well as examples of non-elect infants why do you choose to assume all infants are not true members as opposed to all infants being true members of the church.

I think you'll say because they can't show fruit. I'll be gracious and give you the first three years of life, but after that, come'on, the kids in our church are praying with their parents at home, they proclaim to love Jesus, under the discipline of their parents they are learning to obey God. Granted their understanding is small but who can say they have great understanding to the One who has laid the foundations of the world. Even Jesus says "UNLESS you become like one of these..."

I'm not arguing that unweaned infants take communion. Let's go with three years of age. At three years, they can be seen to be true members of the church and take communion... do we have an agreement? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cheers2.gif" alt="" />?