Quote
William said:
I think that a reason I cannot perceive your point of view is do to what I believe the covenant is. I am not sure that I can see from the scripture that the reprobate are truly included in the covenant other than by administration. I believe the covenant promises are only to the elect. Perhaps I'll let the issue rest to consider other reasonings.
William,

I am sure that the problem here is your not allowing for the "elect" to be born in a condition of depravity and as such are under the wrath of God. God's decree of election must not cloud nor negate the application of it in history. The "elect" are not automatically saved by virtue of their election. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/nope.gif" alt="" /> They are born dead in sins just like everyone else who is born into this world. Their salvation is secured via means and in God's good time. Thus we read in Romans 8:28, 30:

Quote
Romans 8:29-30 (ASV) "For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: <span style="background-color:yellow">and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified</span>."
Do you notice that although there is a foreordination (decree to predestinate and elect) certain individuals they are "called" (regeneration and Irresistible Grace) and thus "justified" (conversion to Christ by repentance and faith) and finally "glorified". . . . aka: "Ordo Salutis". Again, I believe you are diminishing, ignoring or even perhaps denying the temporal outworking of God's eternal decree of election. Although it was done in eternity it is brought to pass in history and time.

Who the elect are we can never be infallibly sure. And what we are given to know in our fallible state comes by means of observation, i.e., "by their fruits ye shall know them". UNTIL there is observable fruit, we have no basis nor warrant to presume who the elect are including our own children. For the promise (of salvation) is given ONLY to those who are called (inwardly by the Holy Spirit which infallibly results in conversion).

I hope this helps you to better understand. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]