The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum What happens to the unborn dead ?

Oh yes Pilgrim I choose, I choose – and “mull” – and not because I think I’m right but because I want to be [sic.]. And you are right, my “human emotions” are very much at play here. I have learned to discipline them by reason, the Word of God, and even the great consensual teachings of the Church – those things that have, in St. Vincent of Lerins’ words, been believed “everywhere, always, by everyone" - but they are still very much at work, and I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. The "compassion" and "love" that the incarnate Christ "felt" during His earthly sojourn were real and basic - they were not "based" upon something more real and basic, such as a proposition or syllogism about those for whom He felt those emotions (though He certainly knew the truth about them and their condition). Our emotions are part of our human nature that is fallen, but also that is being renewed and redeemed, along with our "mind."

I fully accept that we are all – born and unborn, very young and very old alike – totally depraved and fully deserving of God’s punishment and wrath. On the basis of our “imputed guilt” and “corrupt nature” we are all equally deserving of condemnation by and eternal separation from God, and the reconciliation and redemption of anyone is only upon the basis of His grace and mercy. BUT, some are more deserving of greater condemnation than others – this is precisely why there are degrees of punishment in hell (and degrees of reward in heaven). God is not blind nor is He indifferent to the sins we ourselves commit deliberately in the flesh (Genesis 18:25), nor to our acts of love and obedience which flow from a regenerated heart (2 Corinthians 5:10); after all, He ordained these "good works" that we should "walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10). In this sense, I believe that most Reformed thinkers would agree that unborn and very young children (and perhaps also the severely mentally handicapped) are at least on the lower degree of punishment end of the scale. God certainly does everything to “exemplify His glory and justice among men,” but also His love and mercy, and a great part of His glory consists in this.

I do not believe that my view “assails,” “contradicts,” or “violates” either the doctrine of total depravity, unconditional election, or definite atonement. I agree that the reason for God’s choice or election of some and passing over of others “is only to be found within Himself and nothing within man nor anything which man might possibly do, e.g., believe on Christ if given the ‘chance,’ etc.” But, I believe that God does ordain that the reprobate “store up wrath” for themselves (Romans 2:5; Genesis 15:16) to demonstrate His justice (Psalm 98:1-9) and clearly show that they are “without excuse” (Romans 1:20). I think that you are right that there is nothing “positive” that “commends the unborn to God any more than one who is born, infant, child, nor adult” (and if you’ll notice, I have not restricted my comments to unborn children); but, I do believe that there is less to condemn them – and, I believe that this is by God’s sovereign design and decree.


I agree with this wholeheartedly. My contention is not that God’s election was based upon the forseen fact that person x would die in infancy or before he was born; rather, it is that death in infancy or before birth is a sign or evidence that a child was elect, just as confessing faith is for those who live to an age to repent and believe the gospel. Both are ordained by God and are signs of God's love and mercy.


Now Pilgrim, are you implying that the unborn children of Sodom and Gomorrah were less deserving of mercy and more deserving of wrath than those of Geneva or Toronto or somewhere else? I know that can’t be what you mean. I see their deaths, and the deaths of the children of Jericho and the other Canaanite cities the Israelites destroyed as possibly an act of great and rich mercy on the part of God. They were saved from a life of wickedness and idolatry, not because they were better or more virtuous than others (they had not yet committed any real acts of virtue or character); but because God chose them as vessels of unmerited mercy.


I realize that the title of this thread is "What happens to the unborn dead; but, I have not restricted what I have said to the unborn, but basically to any who are mentally unable to comprehend or understand the gospel of Christ, or the nature of sin; the difference between right and wrong, good and evil.