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The fact is that it is you that is making this issue your "business and concern", when the fact is the Scripture is nearly silent (explicit or implicit) about what happens to certain individual unborn. When you tell an unbeliever that you "believe" (outside of the Scripture) that all of the unborn are elect, what happens to the authority of your witness that you "believe" Jesus died for our sins?

Denny,

I think I have hedged what I have said adequately. There are all kinds of issues about which the Scriptures are "'nearly silent' (implicit or explicit)" (such as the baptism or nonbaptism of infants, the salvation of Arminians, the finer points of eschatology, etc.), about which we venture interpretations, and offer what we "believe." Without a Magisterium, we usually fall back of some confessional document (e.g., the Westminster Confession of Faith), or the interpretations offered by theologians and biblical scholars whose integrity and wisdom we respect. I think as long as we adequately qualify what we say, there is nothing wrong or presumtptuous in saying, "this is what I believe, and I think there are indications in Scripture that it is true." And, what leads me to believe it in the first place is not just what I want or wish, but what I believe I have learned about God through His Word and a life lived in fellowship and union with Him. If I understand you correctly (and I probably don't), the only correct answer is "nobody knows - it is pure mystery." I'm okay with that. What I am not okay with is saying that it is "obvious" that the Bible teaches that some infants are elect and others are not. It's just not that obvious. And anyone who says that (Pilgrim and perhaps yourself) is making this just as much his "business and concern" as the person who says what I am saying. We are saying what we believe based upon our understanding and interpretation of Scripture. I claim no more. The thing that seems to have some people in an uproar is that I am being brutally honest about my desires and emotions. I am saying quite clearly that they are not definitive. But I am denying that they are completely irrelevant. And I believe they influence even the most hardcore rationalist more than he cares to admit.

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The danger is that to attempt to force your view (wish) that all unborn children are elect upon the Scripture will destroy or negate doctrines that we know to be true, for instance the doctrine of Total Depravity. Total Depravity is a doctrine of fact not sentiment and applies to all of the children of Adam.

How am I "forcing" my "view (wish)" upon the Scripture? I am saying that in the absence of definitive evidence either way, all other things being equal, I'll choose the interpretation that manifests greater mercy. I make no pretence that I KNOW it is correct, and I am open to counterevidence. This is precisely how I came to believe the doctrines of grace in the first place. Initially, not everything was as clear to me as it is today. I held tentative positions on all five points for some time before I was able to say, "I think this is clearly taught by Scripture." Of course, there are a lot more passages dealing with these issues directly than with the case of the salvation of infants; but I think the principle is similar.

Also, I have not now nor have I ever denied total depravity. Did you read my last post?

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Brad Hammond said:

Unlike some who embrace this idea, I do not reject the teaching that we are all born sinful and worthy of judgment on account of Adam’s sin (Romans 5:12-21; Psalm 51:5), and that we are all, therefore, “by nature children of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3): “The wicked go astray from the womb, they err from their birth (Psalm 58:3). The unborn, very young children, and mental incompetents are not saved on the basis of their “innocence” or anything meritorious in them – they are guilty of Adam’s sin and sinful by nature – they are saved, like everyone else, on the basis of Christ’s redemptive work and the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:1-12, 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 John 5:12).

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Brad Hammond said:

Adam’s sin puts us all on a level playing field – we all deserve eternal punishment and separation from God: “There is none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10). And God is certainly under no obligation to save or have mercy on anyone.

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Brad Hammond said:

In terms of their legal standing before God they are as guilty as anyone else. One sin, Adam’s sin, is sufficient to destroy the legal standing of the entire human race before God.


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Brad Hammond said

Unborn children are “legally” guilty before God; but, they are innocent of deliberate conscious sin and the greater guilt that it imparts. God is under no obligation nor does He have a duty to show mercy to these little ones since they are legally guilty and legally deserving of condemnation; but again I believe there are “clues” that God will treat them differently and show them greater mercy.



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