that's a good point Tom - or when Jesus went on an endless tirade against the Pharasies, He did not try to win them over, He just declared you will not believe becasue you are not my sheep.

straw, we should not exhibit arrogance toward you - but we feel strongly that we are speaking the truth. If we can reach you without being arrogant or dismissive these discussions would be more fruitful. However, if nobody fails to see it you're way - don't take it hard and forgive our tone. We do care about your soul and want to lead you to truth but we can't force you to share our pespective but understand (and Pilgrim will tell you!) if you are relying on your own abilities to choose or follow or cooperate with Jesus without being Regenrated first there lies a major problem - that's where the concern lies - but we should express that concern with compassion and not judgement!

Peace to you Straw!

God Bless!

AC

The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine