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J_Edwards said:
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Joe k said:
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John_C said:

I have heard the Presbyterian form of government called a two and a half officers whatever that is meant. But there is not as defined delineation of responsibilities of the TE & RE as some wants to make it.


That is becasue it is an unscriptural foundation. Straining the writ terribly. First off to use the word "ruler" to signify any type of leadership position is not very Christlike. When used with the expectation of Lordship of any type.

Smacks of a pharissee title.

Elders are suppose to RULE (manage, oversee):

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Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

1 Tim. 3:4-5 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

1 TIm. 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
There is a gift of government (1 Cor. 12:28). As Moses stated, "Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you" (Deut 1:13). Though "lordship" (attributes: control, authority, and presence) may be abused, it is VERY biblical. Read "The Ruling Elder" [An Essay, on the Warrant, Nature and Duties of the Office of the Ruling Elder, in the Presbyterian Church] by Samuel Miller. It is rather enlightening.

I have read it. It is weak at best. The rcc has a better warant for the sacrament of penance. Moses does not a NT position make.

And Ruler is not the Christ model of servant. Pauls use of the word had nothing to do with ruling in a lording way.. It is the shepard.

The is non scriptural warrant for the 2 positons..<<< period

There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.