Originally Posted by Tom
Hi

I just recieved another e-mail from this pastor and thought it might it made his position a little clearer.
Again I plan on looking at it in more detale as I find the time to do so.
Quote
Hallo Tom,

The issue is simply one of timing. I am in agreement, that God has to enable his elect to believe, I just find in Scripture not one single verse that teaches, that Regeneration is that initial work of grace enabling faith and repentance. Since John 3 is not answering the question of chronology and is talking about who gets to enter the kingdom, John 3 cannot be used as a proof text for regeneration coming before God’s gifts of faith and repentance to his elect. This is for me not a grave issue, as long as one knows that apart from God granting faith and repentance, no one can believe or repent. All the doctrines of grace are gifts from God. The question we are faced with is simply one of chronology. In my former email I simply sought to make a biblical case for illumination and calling as that work of grace, that precedes all the others and regeneration and the sealing of the Holy Spirit as the result of illumination and calling. I have never found one single text that places regeneration before faith and repentance, but I have found a number, that teach that the new birth comes about through the Word of truth. That means that God’s Word has to play some role in our being regenerated and not the other way around. But as I said, the big issue is not which of God’s works of Grace in the life of his elect comes first, but that salvation from first to last is the result of God’s sovereign bringing about of his plan to save an elect people for his own glory. I do not have a problem with regeneration preceding faith and repentance, because I am in agreement with reformed theologians, that God has to do something in the life of his elect to enable them to respond to the gospel call with faith and repentance. I simply can’t find any single text that clearly teaches this. If I could, I would gladly accept this as truth. I am not trying to be stubborn and I do not like being at odds with my reformed brethren on this issue.

I don’t feel the need to convince you otherwise on this issue. If you find some passages that you feel are compelling, feel free to forward them on to me.

May the Lord strengthen us both through the doctrines of his grace, that has so wonderful saved us.
Tom


John5:24(KJV): Verily verily, I say unto you, He that heareth(Present tense) my word, and believeth(present tense) on him that sent me, hath(present:is in possesion of something) everlasting life, and shall(future tense) not come into condemnation; but is(Perfect tense) passed from death unto life

The present-perfect tense of the above is used to express action that has been completed with respect to the present i.e passed from death to life before hearing and believing and shall at a future time (before the throne of God) not come into condemnation (not be ashamed)

there a few more like this, but I am at work and don't have time.

Last edited by Pilgrim; Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:53 AM. Reason: fixed broken quote tag