Originally Posted by John_C
Thanks.

In Ephesians 4:11 was Paul talking about the gift or the office in naming the 4? OTOH, maybe Ephesians 4 is not about spiritual gifts as we see in 1 Corinthians 12. Maybe I need a good definition of distinguishing between a gift and an office?
Let's look at the CONTEXT of that verse:

Quote
Ephesians 4:8-12 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
We see that Paul is speaking of "gifts" and not offices. Offices are designated elsewhere in Paul's epistles which have to do with the administration of the Church. Thus, the great majority of denominations have agreed that Elder and Deacon are the only two permanent offices established for the post-resurrection Church.

[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]