Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Originally Posted by Meta4
But I have to ask, in all the places where the Bible refers to wine, is it specific as to red vs. white wine? Would white wine be acceptable?

And in regard to the bread, is either leavened or unleavened bread acceptable?
I don't recall any injunction that specifies that wine must be red. Likewise, I do not recall an injunction that specifies that the bread must be unleavened. To add to what God has set forth in regard to the Lord's Table on the basis of speculation is to profane it... yes? Methinks that one can see a similar example in regard to the 4th Commandment regarding the Sabbath. God specifically commanded that man work six days but on the seventh day, he was to cease from his labors and worship Him. That the OT saints observed the Sabbath on Saturday according to their calendar cannot be taken as perpetually binding since the fulfillment (partial) of the Jewish Sabbath was to be found in the resurrection of Christ; the first day of the week vs. the last day of the week. The change to the first day was not fabricated but rather understood by the NT Church from Scripture. Likewise, the Lord's Supper transcended the OT practice due to the fulfillment of Christ's redemptive work.

All that to simply say, that what God has written should and must be sufficient in and of itself and not reduced or extended beyond what is written by the imaginations of men. (Rev. 22:18,19) as applied to the entire Bible. Those words, at least to me personally, make me shudder and practice extreme caution when interpreting Scripture. But it seems that the word "caution" has gone the way of "reverence" and "awe" in regard to both the use of Scripture and particularly worship in our day.

I guess I approach this from an old fashioned Baptist perspective. The NT does not give a formula, or precise instructions on baptism; but, we Baptists historically have gone by example, believers baptism by immersion as we read the NT. If I transfer the same reasoning to the Lord's Supper, I come to the conclusion for myself, that red wine is the biblical example, but the question of the bread, I go with leavened bread. I researched and it seems that only the RC and old Lutherans are dogmatic on using red wine. As I worked my way through the Bible in references to wine, I can find nothing but references that show symbolism of "red" and "blood" and nowhere do I find a hint of white wine: Gen 49:11,12; Dt 32:14; Pro 23:31; Isa 49:26, 63:2; Zech 9:15; Rev 14:20 all from the NRSV. Then if I go to the non-canonical apocrypha to get a historical perspective of Jewish thought, I find the following two passages:

"The basic necessities of human life are water and fire and iron and salt and wheat flour and milk and honey, the blood of the grape and oil and clothing."
(Sir 39:26 NRSVA)

"he held out his hand for the cup and poured a drink offering of the blood of the grape; he poured it out at the foot of the altar, a pleasing odor to the Most High, the king of all."
(Sir 50:15 NRSVA)

I therefore believe red wine symbolizing blood and sacrifice is the proper element here. When it comes to the question of leaven or unleavened bread, I like how the Puritan Matthew Poole commented upon this:

"Jesus took bread; without doubt unleavened bread, for this night there was no other to be found in the house of any Jew, nor yet for seven days which began from the sunset of this night. But it will not from hence follow, that the Lord’s supper must be eaten with unleavened bread. For though our Saviour be to be imitated in his actions relating to gospel worship; yet not in such of them which had a plain reference to the Jewish worship, and were there instituted for a special reason, as unleavened bread was, to put them in mind of the haste in which they came out of Egypt. Our Saviour at this time could use no other than unleavened bread, for no other was to be had."

So I take the question of leaven related to the Old Covenant Passover symbolism that is not fitting for the New Covenant; but, the symbolism of the red wine to blood sacrifice carries though, as Jesus said: "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." Now, I do not wish to seem legalistic about this, but the question of using white grape juice instead of red, does cause me to question the reason for it and I am going to ask my Pastor about it, just as an inquiry. laugh



Ned