Originally Posted by ATulipNotADaisy
So are you saying that God is good to those he intends to damn?
yep Yes, God is benevolent to all men regardless of their final destination. Please do not misconstrue this as being the same as "God loves everyone.", which is the popular contemporary view... see here, for example for a rebuttal to that serious error: Does God Love the Sinner and Hate Only His Sin?. Hyper-Calvinism is best known for denying that God does any good/kindness/benevolence to the reprobate. On the other extreme there is Semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism and all other spurious variations of Christianity which believe that God loves everyone, even the reprobate. Neither can be proven from Scripture.

On the second issue as to the distinction between total and utter depravity... including the false teaching that even those who are regenerate are totally depraved, which is a flat denial of God the Spirit's radical transformation of the soul in regeneration, where the individual is brought to spiritual life and thus no longer hates God but loves God, hates sin and yearns to do that which is according to God's perfect law, cf. Rom 7. The unregenerate are totally depraved as has been embraced by all those who adhere to the various Reformed Confessions and Catechisms throughout history, even before the Reformation. The sinner has no inclination nor cannot do, think nor even desire to love God and conform himself to the law of God. But again, that predisposition to rebel against God is restrained by God for many reasons, e.g., for the benefit of the Church in that it is allowed to exist and grow until the full number of elect are gathered in, for relative peace on earth among the nations, etc., etc. I gave you a biblical example citing Abraham, Sarah and Abimelech, which shows that IF God had not restrained Abemilech, despite Abimelech's self-righteous boasting of not taking Sarah, he would have. There are many examples throughout Scripture where God used wicked men and women for His purposes to bring about a greater good, the epitome being the crucifixion of the Lord of Glory. There were countless times Christ could have been seized and murdered by all, but it was God's purpose in the fulness of time and not before that He allowed it by restraining the natural hatred of Him that resided in the hearts of all. Utter depravity will only exist in Hell where the damned will be give full expression of their depravity.

Yes, I am aware of some individuals who lure some away on the Internet with their serious heretical views and who insist that the unregenerate are "utterly depraved" and accuse anyone who disagrees with them that they must believe that there is some "good" in all men. That is nothing less than a categorical lie. Historically, the Calvinistic churches have never held to that nonsense and have rejected it as spurious teaching at best. I suspect you have been exposed to one of those individuals online and probably could provide that person's name too. evilgrin



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simul iustus et peccator

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