Covid compliance was enabling the State to lead the church - the churches that complied were wrong. No argument from me there.

Did you listen to the 3 concerns that the author claims the 2kT-proponents asserted? How would you answer them? Should the Roman Catholic Church be the primary state supported true church?

I thought this comment under the video was solid mostly…. at least what was relevant to the topic/discussion at hand….


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@toddstevens9667
17 hours ago
I don’t think we should fool ourselves here: 1) Baird is a Presbyterian. He got the idea for this book by reading Calvin on civil magistrates. Even though Baird claims that we aren’t talking about a state church, Calvin certainly is. And none of this really works without a state church. 2) Baird might be excited about Vance quoting the Nicene Creed, but what if Vance started quoting the Marian Dogmas, or the articles from the Council of Trent anathematizing those who teach salvation by faith alone? “True Religion” is often in the eye of the beholder. I do not think Vance has the “True Religion.” 3) Since none of this really works without a state church, do we really want Donald Trump or Joe Biden deciding which “True Religion” to promote? Don’t be silly. 4) We have a democratic republic form of government. The state is “of the people, by the people, and for the people.” Does anyone really trust the American people to put the right people in office to make these sorts of decisions? That’s even more insane than letting Trump or Biden decide the outlines of “True Religion.” 5) None of this means that Christians shouldn’t be active and outspoken for Jesus in the public sphere. We need to vote for the candidate that best reflects our views and even run for office ourselves. But government-promoted religion is not the NT way. The Apostles lived in a pagan tyranny. They didn’t depend on government-promoted religion. They went out and preached the Gospel, obeyed the government when they could, ignored it when they couldn’t, and offered their lives in martyrdom as testimonies to the power of Jesus Christ. You see Paul evangelizing government officials, but you don’t see him trying to get them to promote Christianity through government power.

The problem with adopting reformed theology is that it’s really hard to divorce it from the historical context in which it was created. All the Reformers were creating doctrine and theological systems for state churches. None of the Reformers could even have conceived of a separation of church and state. It would have been incomprehensible to all of them. Going to Calvin to learn about civil magistrates and church/state relations makes absolutely no sense 500 years later in the United States. It’s a different historical time and context. We are clearly in a post-Christian nation at this point. And trusting Donald Trump, JD Vance, Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, or AOC to promote “true religion”is pretty crazy.

Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Oct 17, 2025 6:46 PM.