The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Explain his will

saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Is this freewill, if not please explain. sounds like he has a choice.


Neicey

Neicey,

Having a "choice" is NOT synonymous with "free-will". Men are by nature "free AGENTS", i.e., they have the ability to make choices. They are free to choose whatever they desire at any given time and according to the circumstances they are found in at that time. It is utterly IMPOSSIBLE to force a human being to do something that is against their will. Everyone will do that which they desire most; which they feel is most important to them at the time. Circumstances may severely limit the number of choices to choose from, but the freedom to choose cannot be altered except by death. And most importantly here is that one's choices are limited also by one's "nature"; whether either unregenerate (depraved/corrupted/spiritually dead/heart of stone) or regenerate (spiritually alive/born anew/heart of flesh).

Free-will is something altogether different. This view says that man is able to choose that which is contrary to his nature; something which even God Himself cannot do. Thus, it is said an unregenerate person can choose that which is most hated and in total opposition to everything that person wants and knows. Simply put, the doctrine of free-will teaches that an unregenerate person can "will" to love Christ, render obedience to Him and to "believe" upon Him unto salvation. Again, this would be akin to God having the ability to sin; which would be something totally antithetical to His thrice holy nature.

The Lord Christ spoke most simply but profoundly here, which I think sums it up quite sufficiently:

Matthew 12:33-35 (ASV) "Either make the tree good, and its fruit good; or make the tree corrupt, and its fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by its fruit. Ye offspring of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. The good man out of his good treasure bringeth forth good things: and the evil man out of his evil treasure bringeth forth evil things."

And from the Old Testament, we find similar words which describe not only the inability of the natural man to do any good thing, but even more so, how God looks upon sinful mankind:

Job 15:14-16 (ASV) "What is man, that he should be clean? And he that is born of a woman, that he should be righteous? Behold, he putteth no trust in his holy ones; Yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight: How much less one that is abominable and corrupt, A man that drinketh iniquity like water!"

Thus, the natural man is totally free to choose all that he desires . . . according to the dictates of his heart, which is corrupt, depraved, hates God and all that is good. Again, although the "freedom" exists to make choices, the choices themselves are restricted by, (1) the eternal decree and providence of God, and (2) the predisposition of one's soul/heart/nature.

In His Grace,

Pilgrim, this is hard for me, I had missed a week in bible study, last week I returned an they were talking about how I had missed a discussion on Calvin, then everybody laughed, so I said what is so funny about that, one man replied, in Calvin's thoughts their is no freewill, an then they laughed again.

I did not know what to say,because even if I could explain, they are really good at explaining their veiw, then I seat there like a dummy. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />

If only my brain would unlock what I have read here in the studies,at the time it was needed in bible study,I would like to teach them a few things. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/argue.gif" alt="" />

But then it will be me all by my lonesome,againist them. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" /> stubborn men

Neicey