..."perfect Christians"! And it has nothing whatever to do with anybody being a religious leader.
We seem to be compartmentalizing Christianity for politicians, which is rather an odd thing to do, ISTM. I get the impression that while attending a polytheistic or multifaith event in a private capacity is wrong, it's okay so long as it's part of a politician's public duties.
So we have Kerry, for instance, insisting that while he privately considers abortion to be wrong, his public stance on it is the opposite.
Isn't that essentially the same rationale that underlies the idea while a Christian ought not attend worship services honoring false gods, if he does so as a public figure it's somehow acceptable? One set of rules applies in one area, while another set of rules applies in another?
ISTM wrong is wrong. If Christians are to stay away from occasions where false gods are honored in their private life, they ought to keep away from them in public life as well.
It would be impossible, realistically, to get any legislation enacted, without some compromise. Comparing Bush's record so far against what we know of John Kerry's voting legislation record, gives a good idea of who is better qualified to lead America in a better direction. To vote a "throw away" vote is worse than not voting at all in my opinion, as we must account for all our actions!
Eh. I'm not so convinced. I don't think Pres. Bush is the best qualified for the job, as he has enacted and supported many policies which I consider detrimental to our national welfare. I can't vote for him in good conscience. Kerry, on the other hand, is even worse.
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
(BTW, Kyle, this is not directed at you...I'm just too darn lazy to take the trouble to put this elsewhere.)
Why are we so convinced that the LORD cannot work through Kerry? Scripture plainly shows that our LORD has a definite taste for drama (as nature demonstrates with each and every lightning storm and rainbow!), and occasionally it pleases Him to set His stage so it looks as if surely His will can't be done now.
Then ka-BOOM!...He shows how nothing and no one can say Him nay.
Wouldn't it be something were Kerry to be elected, then come to true, saving faith in Christ, become set on fire for Him, publicly repent of his past positions and votes, courteously but firmly refuse to set one toe into any multireligious gathering, and generally be a powerful witness to a baffled, probably horrified world?
Gives me chills to think about it.
The details are in the LORD's hands, not Bush's or Kerry's or Nader's or Peroutka's or any human hands.
Resting on the total sovereignty of the LORD means I can watch the election returns with placid interest. "What will our almighty LORD do next?" I wonder. "What surprises does He have in store for us?"
Mind, they might be unpleasant surprises, and if that's His will for us, so be it.
Clinging Vine.. Well.. while I highly doubt that Kerry would radically repent.. I guess it's possible. Still.. I'm not holding out any hope for it lol.
One good thing I see in all this, is that we do get to vote. We do get to discuss politics without fear of persecution. I got to help with taking the marriage petitions door to door this summer, and it was so much fun talking to flaming liberals! I got to hear their side, and discuss the situation. There were no real debates.. but the one thing I always said was that this was what is good about america. The petition was only to put the issue on the ballot so that we as Michiganders could vote on the issue ourselves. Even the liberals could agree with that!
That's what I think is good about this whole discussion too. We get to decide for ourselves.. of course knowing we will be held accountable before God for doing our duty or not.
I personally don't think Bush is a Christian by the way. I think that just as a catholic who converts cannot call themselves a catholic, because a true christian, once they know they should not commit idolatry, could not continue praying to Mary and the saints. It's the same with Bush. If he were really a Christian, he would not publicly or privately worship, or condone the worship of satanic idols. I'm not a conspiracy theorist though. I don't care one way or the other. God has the election in His hands. I will vote for Bush though, because I care very much about babies and old people. John Kerry doesn't. George Bush claims he does...
I do agree with you, we do have the right to vote and I think that duty and responsibility go hand and hand with that. I believe we will never see a true Christian in that office until the new heaven and earth, because, as I said above, they would be unable to do anything, due to the compromise needed to pass ANY piece of legislation, which they would not be able to do if they stand true to their beliefs.
I don't see anything wrong with Pres. Bush attending ceremonies etc. as the country's representative, he does not have to approve of them. Did not Paul eat meat from idol sacrifices? Realistically, we are to be apart from the world, but not to neglect our civic duties and our interactions with the world!
That is a valid point you made. I had not considered that. I am thinking about him being at the shinto shrine though. That bothers me a lot. Still.. I agree with you. There will be no perfect Christians in leadership until Jesus Christ! and I honestly can't wait.
...if it caused anyone to stumble. Any behavior which increases the modern day, ecumenical conviction that "all roads lead to God" should be avoided, surely. Yet what message does an avowed Christian send when he is shown in respectful attendance at services honoring false gods?
Which takes precedent, temporal affairs, no matter how lofty, or God's honor? If a Christian believes participating in a multifaith or polytheistic event is offensive to the LORD, he ought to not attend, and let the temporal chips fall where they may.
Mainly though, there should not be one set of rules of Christian behavior in this situation, yet another set of rules of Christian behavior in that situation. I strongly disapprove of a disconnect between the public and private behavior of Christians, whether in the workplace or politics or the entertainment field.
As Paul wrote: ...the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. (1 Cor. 10:20-21)
I do hear what you are saying and I do believe that a professing Christian should not be found guilty of dissimulation. However, methinks you would have to prove that George Bush was actually partaking in the worship of false deities; i.e., he actually offered up worship to Buddha, Allah, etc. Where I differ with you is that I believe that as the leader of a country; not the Christian Church, the President is duty-bound to attend such functions as a representative of the United States, offering unity with those of different faiths who stand against terrorism. His presence at such events does not necessarily mean he is condoning the theologies of the various religions. However, I agree with MHeath in that I do not believe that George W. Bush is genuinely converted, and thus IF he actually offered up worship to false deities, it shouldn't be a surprise! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
All this fervor over Bush's attendance of such multi-religious events reminds me of a man who was a member, I think?, of the Church of Scotland who was excommunicated because he attended the funeral of a friend who was Roman Catholic. He went out of respect for his friend, while not agreeing with the man's beliefs in any way and to offer his condolences to the grieving family. I cannot believe that the Lord Christ would have done anything otherwise. Yet, this man was found "guilty by association"! I can't tell you how many wedding receptions I have attended with great reluctance, knowing the things that were going to take place there, e.g., heavy drinking, debaucherous music, profane speech, etc... yet I still went (made an appearance is more accurate) so as to wish the newly-wed couple good tidings.
Again, what the state of George Bush's heart was in these gatherings was I cannot judge. But whatever one chooses to do by way of judgment in his regard, then it must also be equally applied across the board to everyone who attended those ceremonies and professes to be a Christian, e.g., Billy Graham?
Lastly.... although it is indisputably true that God is sovereign and has already determined the outcome of the election, what is also indisputably true is that each Christian individual is personally responsible for the decision they make in this regard. Although God foreordained that Cyrus would destroy Israel, I doubt God would have been pleased if an Israelite who supported Cyrus! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> We don't want to diminish God's sovereignty nor man's responsibility. They are co-existing truths, the latter of which rests upon us to do that which is right. Thus, let each man vote according to his/her conscience and not judge one another. The man who God wants to be the next President of the United States, whether it be for blessing or judgment, will infallibly be elected by those who vote.
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